Come to terms?

Post #51,985 by wharris2 9/16/02 11:13:19 PM Reply	Come to terms? Some people may be able to, but my terms, alas, are that I can't control it. I'm not an anti-drinking fanatic, but I just cannot do it, myself. The lawyers would mostly rather be what they are than get out of the way even if the cost was Hammerfall. - Jerry Pournelle
Post #52,004 by ben_tilly 9/17/02 7:23:12 AM Reply	This is a good thing to know about yourself I am lucky that those aren't my terms. But I have seen the tragic results when people who have that limit then try to push their abilities at self-control. And I have seen the mess they leave among others after they die from it. Cheers, Ben "Career politicians are inherently untrustworthy; if it spends its life buzzing around the outhouse, it\ufffds probably a fly." - [link\|http://www.nationalinterest.org/issues/58/Mead.html\|Walter Mead]
Post #52,084 by deSitter 9/17/02 4:20:50 PM Reply	Re: Come to terms? Well, I have had friends who completely stopped, and it was clearly not a solution, and it was not realistic because they had the mindset that one drink represented a total failure. There was no accumulation of advantage - at any point, even 20 years later, a total failure could happen with one misstep. The 12 step programs are nothing but poorly hidden religious indoctrination, in which you either believe, or don't. There is no gray. But people are gray. Motivations are never pure. No one is completely rational. So these people ended up in worse shape, even though they were sober, because all room for error was gone - they might as well have been living under some kind of final court order, although self-imposed. It seemed sad to me that the cure was worse than the disease. I myself was concerned at one time about drinking to excess - so I attended a few AA meetings. I ended up with more real empathy for stone unrepentant drunks, who it seemed to me were waging an honest war with their demons. And I also knew that there was a lot more to alcoholism than drinking. So I think you have to attack the underlying cause, and the symptom - drinking to excess - will go away. It's a personal opinion but I'm sure it's right. The objective is to get better. Avoiding drink as an end in itself almost never works. Personally, what "fixed" me in that regard was simply recognizing that I expected too much from myself and from others. Lowered expectations from others automatically lowered the impetus to drown in booze. Another aspect is - you can't expect quick solutions. My drinking gradually tailed off to the point it was no longer a major component of life - but I still love a cold beer on a hot day. Am I cured? Of course not - I never had a disease. I just stopped being self-indulgent. -drl
Post #52,114 by boxley 9/17/02 7:55:16 PM Reply	Different from a physical condition I know many who if they have one or 2 drinks are fine. I also know others that if they have one drink they will be drunk until dead, run out of money or end up in Jail or the hospital. That is a physical as opposed to a mental affliction. thanx, bill will work for cash and other incentives [link\|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html\|skill set] qui mori didicit servire dedidicit
Post #52,122 by wharris2 9/17/02 9:47:28 PM Reply	Personal habits Me, at my depths of addiction, I never went out and partied, it was just me at home with a bottle or two. Now that's a bad deal. In social settings, I wasn't one of the uncontrollable bar-hopping drinkers. In part, this was good in that I never got into fights, did stupid stuff, or tried to drive home from a bar while drunk, but on the other hand, drinking shots at home finally did start to have an effect on health and at work. Bad, very bad. I could probably handle a glass or two of beer while bowling, or a marguarita, Long Island iced tea, or something else over dinner. But that wasn't what eventually caused problems for me. And at this point, it's actually dangerous to me for me to destroy any more of my liver with even a beer or two. I've heard arguments that the "total abstinance" program of AA can be detrimental. I can't disagree with that; for many people, the whole-hog AA program is damn stupid. And its religious overtones really turns me off. (No matter what they say, the Higher Power is God, and I don't care what they pretend, they pretty much say "You atheists or agnostics are screwed.")

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