Maybe I'm not so different after all.

Post #46,112 by mmoffitt 7/19/02 4:27:54 PM Reply	Maybe I'm not so different after all. The market lost about 5% of its value - today, in one day that is. And our President (er, your President, I don't claim him), announced he was going on vacation again. Pundits are wondering what everyone is afraid of. They were asking "Why all the panic?" That got me to thinking. Perhaps I have something in common with the roughly 70% of the Murican people who think Dubya is doing a good job after all. It might be possible that even the Dubya supporters have some fundamental misgivings about their "average guy in the White House". Maybe, like me, they hold that it would really be a lot better if we had the upper 10% of the graduating class in charge instead of the bottom 2%. Maybe, at some level, even they concede that they are worried that we have idiots running things at a time when things are not good. And because they recognize the shortcomings of this Administration, they are anxious. The other day I even heard the following exchange on McCNN or McMSNBC or one of the other McNews stations. Question: "Are the American people worried about the President's own financial dealings in his role at Harken? Is that what this skiddishness is about?" Answer: "No, I don't think they're worried about what the President did 12 years ago. They're worried that he doesn't have a clue." If that's true, if that's what they're worried about, then I have something in common with them.
Post #46,121 by Simon_Jester 7/19/02 5:02:26 PM Reply	well... what do you want to have him do? Everytime he's talked about it in a speech the market has taken a nosedive. And he did appoint the guy who wanted "a kinder, gentler SEC".
Post #46,128 by tablizer 7/19/02 6:08:07 PM 7/19/02 6:12:32 PM Reply	Examatocracy? (* President...announced he was going on vacation again. ) That just means he won't be in the Whitehouse. It does not necessarily mean he won't be working. Clinton may have been in the Whitehouse more, but he was dripping on interns while there. ( Maybe, like me, they hold that it would really be a lot better if we had the upper 10% of the graduating class in charge instead of the bottom 2% *) Europe tends to have that idea. However, it never worked out quite like many have hoped. Exam high-scorers tend to prefer bueuracracies for some reason. I think it is sort of the idea that you can codify the process into a written document (written by the "geniouses"), and everything will then run smooth. But the writers are often out of touch with the soldiers in the trenches dealing with actual people. Further, high scorers tend to have poor diplomatic skills, and diplomacy is important for international problem solving. ________________ oop.ismad.com Edited by tablizer July 19, 2002, 06:12:32 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #46,209 by Another Scott 7/20/02 9:28:23 AM Reply	Also, remember "The Best and the Brightest" Lots of brilliant people worked for Kennedy and Johnson in the early-mid 1960s. They brought us the buildup in Vietnam... The trouble with excluding people who don't do well on certain tests is that you invite hubris in those who are deemed worthy. That's a very bad thing. It also invites stasis in systems (i.e. those who are able to get into the system want to make it safe to remain there and difficult for others to get in to replace them) and makes them inflexible and poorly suited for coping with changes in circumstances. See, e.g., pre-Chaing and pre-Mao China. Dullards and average Joes have important roles to play in government and elsewhere in society. Would those who now argue against GWB being intellectually qualified feel the same way against Harry Truman? (For the record, I think GWB's school record shows that he's not an idiot. Yes, he mangles sentences and often puts forth simplistic arguments. But he's not an idiot, IMO. And I disagree with many of his positions, and no I didn't vote for him.) Cheers, Scott.
Post #46,249 by Ashton 7/20/02 10:38:53 PM Reply	Agree he is not an idiot.. actually. Believe he suffers from mental laziness, that which in an average mind's carelessness can seem like idiot-behavior. Then too - no one has attempted to measure the effects of growing up in a household which deems itself a Dynasty. He was born into a milieu where daily lying was mothers milk for Success in political manipulations. "Out of the loop" Daddy - what does Sonny learn from that-all? How does W try to compensate for all the (since-released comments of contemporaries) about Daddy's "ordinariness and unsuitability for leadership positions" ? The speech mannerisms may derive from whatever made Daddy the humorist's friend too - but the utter mechanicalness of his treatment (as Governor of Texas) of all death-penalty cases AS-IF the Texas justice system never made mistakes: THAT is for GWB to take the full heat for. It speaks volumes about his personal hubris. I don't want this man remaining near a Red button for any longer than (an actual counted-voting can manage, next). If we Can manage to count most of them, that is. He's not much fun to lampoon because he so often says such Stupid simplistic things.. with a keen sense of discovery. That 'entrepreneur' remark we would have taken as pretty wry wit.. in anyone Else (on the world Ruling Class list today) except Dubya: We knew he meant it literally! (though I allow still, just a small chance that it had been explained to him before, and he was trying for actual Wit.. A small chance.) May we all survive him, Ashton PS- a la Quayle/Benson/JFK - W Ain't no HST nohow.
Post #46,274 by screamer 7/21/02 9:35:25 AM Reply	"May we all survive him" We survived a buffoon like the last resident (of the White House), why not survive this one? Don't know about you, but I don't think the last one even knew there was a button... The only man I know of that "left" the White House a rank amateur (after 8 years)... We'll survive this one. Trying to pin the market crash on Bush now? Remember "irrational exhuberance"? I bet you do, but I bet half the flock don't. Shame on you. Just a few thoughts, Screamer You need rhino skin If you're gonna begin To walk Through this world You need elephant balls If you don't want to crawl On your hands Through this world Oh my love if I reveal Every secret I've concealed How many thoughts would you steal How much of my pain would you feel You need eagles wings To get over things That make no sense In this world You need rhino skin If you're gonna pretend You're not hurt by this world If you listen long enough You can hear my skin grow tough Love is painful to the touch Must be made of stronger stuff You need rhino skin To get to the end Of the maze through this world You need rhino skin Or you're gonna give in To the needles and pins The arrows of sin The evils of men You need rhino skin T. Petty - Rhino Skin
Post #46,308 by Ashton 7/21/02 6:54:39 PM Reply	'Blame' ___'market crash'___ ?! Hah you jest !? - that blame is EZ: unrestrained subsidized greed regardless of race, creed or national lobotomy. Them Repos ate-up the apparent hands-off Prosperity R'Us, loved the gutting of welfare (+ Mcjobs for all the mothers too -- whose work raising the little tykes was deemed not real Work, like ya do.. answerin phones at The Office for $7/hr and no perks.) And they were ecstatic about the Popular Deregulation of Everything! scam. Leavin all that ethics stuff to them CIEIOs. Wanna blame Bill for the entire Carefully-Crafted Cesspool\ufffd which is Murican Biz-Ethics 2K too ?? hmmm ?? (OK maybe you were into the absinthe again..) It will irk however that - the previous Pres. you so cavalierly dismissed with the usual meaningless generalities of the unwashed: managed to 'be present to EIGHT YEARS of "an unprecedented upward mobility of that which is our ^Visible^ God: the GNP" [byanyothernewName]. While... Bush-Daddy Tonguetied I saw the exact same thing. Only the polarity was [-]. No, there's actually only a small correlation between occcupancy of the now-Gray House and.. the $$ game, but face it: in Murica it's the Perception that Counts. Certainly the populace can't (count). Bill makes all them Big men richer than ever before (and the lo-end lower than before = actually Backwards in spendable income VS 20 years ago. Now THAT's PROGRESS) Notice that continuing trend btw? And you want to dis him! (and Not dis Ronnie for Inventing Greed Is Good ??) Who ya crappin.. {sheesh} ie Screw Bush.. when the Congress is certifiably bought, the USSC is dishonest by Its Own! Religio-politico 'philosophy' - what matter a Village Idiot at the Apex? (never mind claimed membership.. in the One US Party With Two Right Wings\ufffd) Ashton Born day-before [link\|http://www.wtv-zone.com/lumina/judy/main.html\|Yesterday ] (An Immortally-perfect flic with the incomparable Judy Holliday, Wm. Holden.. which captures Perfectly! Murican Biz 'Ethics' 2K. Only it was filmed in 1950. Le plus s\ufffd change) (Then throw in, It Can't Happen Here 1935 - for further evidence about that 'change' thingie). Ol Berzelius Windrip lives! (but so does Doremus Jessup..)
Post #46,317 by screamer 7/21/02 10:03:27 PM Reply	Blame me... because while I still voted, I got so torked off at the dems (who had the whole enchilada for two years - '92-'94) by their total inaction, that I voted a straight Repo ticket in '94 in protest... First time I ever voted for a Repo other than Bush Sr. the second time around. Just so happened that lots of others did the same thing. I wasn't paying attention... the contract with America thang... The NAFTA thang... We're are definately reaping... we think we're so clever and classless and free... But I do lay a certain amount of the "if it's legal, then it's ethical" blame on the last residency. And no, this has nothing to do with peckers, Brandioch. I actually was trying to give you some cheerful words of encouragement with my first post. I was so "disenchanted" with Clinton the first two years, that it actually affected my sleeping, etc. He actually made it through two terms and through sheer inaction and ineptitude, didn't manage to screw the pooch too bad. In other words, my fears were unfounded. The country survived. You only have six more years of Bush... Barring some Gephardt miracle... Hang in there. Just a few thoughts, Screamer "Yeah, we all shine on, like the moon and stars and the sun" J. Lennon
Post #46,440 by mmoffitt 7/22/02 8:23:03 PM Reply	And Pigs fly every other Tuesday. Think he'd have gotten into the Ivy Leagues schools if he had a different last name and family? Let's let him speak for himself about his intellectual prowess.... "To the C students, I say, 'You too can be president of the United States.'" President Bush Yale University's 300th commencement Your statement reminds me of his campaign's weak attempt at defending his Idiotness, "He's not stupid, he's intellectually lazy." Geez!
Post #46,624 by Ashton 7/23/02 9:25:17 PM Reply	Important difference.. Being an Idiot IS an excuse: to miss a lot of the stuff we naturally presume that - everyone sorta groks. (And.. electing an actual Idiot to the White House - would be about Us, not about Him/Her.) Claiming 'intellectual laziness' overtly! implies a need to grasp at any last straw to weasel out of being Noticed as being: a carefully nurtured Predator, who merely speaks poorly.. as reflects his mediocre mind. That still is not, 'Being an Idiot'. It is much worse IMhO. (As well as being 2nd-degree Language murder ;-) Ashton
Post #46,639 by mmoffitt 7/23/02 11:35:03 PM Reply	If the President were truly elected, I'd be happy. I think Shrub's popularity with the common man is precisely because he seems so dim-witted that the "average Murican" can identify with him. And, as above, I think that the "average Murican" says to himself, "I shore dew lak that G. Dubya. Why, he sounds jus' lak me." Then the economy tanks, a building falls down, the Bill of Rights gets slaughtered and the "average Murican" says secretly to himself (perhaps subconsciously) "But, maybe that ain't a good thang that the Prezeedent ain't got no mo' on the ball than I does."
Post #46,643 by orion 7/23/02 11:42:24 PM Reply	There are no free elections besides most citizens do not vote anyway. The electorial college chooses the president anyway, not the voters. The voters just give the electorial college the power to pick the president. Quit thinking that this is a true democracy and a true free country because it isn't. What it is would be more of a republic or plutocracy or combination of the two. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #46,645 by mmoffitt 7/23/02 11:55:49 PM Reply	Heh. For at least the past 20 years I've been saying that we are "a somewhat democratic plutocracy." First time I said that was an undergraduate history class. The prof was comparing different countries forms of government, referred to us as a democracy, noticed I was shaking my head violently "no" and asked me, "We're not a democracy? Then what are we?" My reply was the same as above. He thought about it a few seconds, starting nodding and said, "Yeah, ... okay, I'll buy that." It was 1983 or 1984. ;0)
Post #46,813 by jb4 7/25/02 10:09:30 AM Reply	A "plubic"? jb4 "I remember Harry S. Truman's sign on his desk. 'The buck stops here.' Strange how those words, while still true, mean something completely different today." -- Brandioch
Post #46,710 by screamer 7/24/02 11:24:24 AM Reply	What's amazing to me... is that I felt the exact same way you just described about Reagan and Clinton. That the American public was too dumb to elect presidents. That they want to hire two bit actors (trained monkeys?) to "play" president and tell them whatever they want to hear. In my lifetime, Carter and Bush senior, two highly intelligent men - men with integrity, were one termers... Two "talkers", all flash and no substance, mental "giants" - Reagan and Clinton got 2 terms each. Then there was Nixon, a one and a half termer who was highly intelligent but... integrity??? Hmmm... You best be careful if you want GW out in 2 instead of 6, you better start making him out to be an egghead or a competent man. If you make him out to be a buffoon, he'll be a two termer. Just a few thoughts, Screamer As soon as you're born they make you feel small By giving you no time instead of it all Till the pain is so big you feel nothing at all J. Lennon - Working Class Hero
Post #46,854 by mmoffitt 7/25/02 2:17:43 PM Reply	Clinton ~= Reagan??? Um, I think NOT! Clinton was anything but "of average intellect". He is a smart man.
Post #46,977 by wharris2 7/26/02 3:54:14 AM Reply	You give Reagan less credit than due, I think At least Reagan had his ideas of what the country should be, and was willing to override his advisors (Grenada) when he thought it necessary. He delivered what he believed, and even if you disagree with what he did, you gotta admit he thought he was doing the right thing (without sticking his finger in the air and watching the way the wind was blowing.) Bush #1, Clinton, Bush #2 - they all seem infected by "advisoritis", those who tell them what people want them to do, not what they think they should do. The lawyers would mostly rather be what they are than get out of the way even if the cost was Hammerfall. - Jerry Pournelle
Post #46,992 by mmoffitt 7/26/02 7:13:17 AM Reply	<ROFL> Re: "doing the right thing" Like trading arms for hostages, like the innumerable lies and distortions he told about "welfare moms, actually naming people who could work who were collecting disability" - (the same who later showed up in wheelchairs with O2 tanks asking the White House where it was, exactly, that they were supposed to be working?), the never-to-be-completely-resolved "October Surprise", changing school lunch policy to count catsup as a vegetable, the illegal minings of the harbor of Nicaragua - a nation we had diplomatic relations with at the time - further instilling trust among our allies, the funding of Salvadoran Death Squads, flipping the tax code on its head insuring the most rapid polarization of wealth the nation has seen, "The missles launch in five minutes", the general philosophy of "Greed is not enough", etc. Not to mention his simultaneously destroying not one, but two superpowers by spending them out of existence. The "Right Thing", uh-huh. Sure.
Post #47,086 by Ashton 7/26/02 5:26:28 PM Reply	Yabut.. he had what Counts in Murica: a toothy smile, a facility for memorizing B-movie dialogue, a bottomless stock of meandering homilies and above all-else, that wonderful litmus for every ____ [fill in fav synonym] The Courage of His Convictions\ufffd (Never 'Mind'.. the rich assortment of folks who can be put on that same list. Murican politics ain't about 'mind' it's about feelings.. - even before Barbra set it to music) No doubt there are actual Shrines to Ronnie, in 20,000 sq. ft. houses and boardrooms.. all over the country. {sniff} Ashton all the world's a stage and all the -

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