Which is why I think

Post #46,024 by orion 7/18/02 7:19:42 PM Reply	Which is why I think that Apple will find some way to get OSX WINTEL to only run on Apple made WINTEL systems. Either a security chip that it searches for, or a change to the ROM that only Apple has, or some other way. That way an Apple made AMD Thunderbird 1.6Ghz system for $600USD can run OSX as a Workstation, but the $600USD Linux/Lindows based system sold at Wal-Mart can't. Then all Apple needs to do is port [link\|http://www.winehq.org\|WINE] to the OSX WINTEL platform to run the DOS and Windows crap^D^D^D^Dstuff. Then Apple can use it to compete against Windows, Linux and other systems. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #46,033 by tjsinclair 7/18/02 9:44:39 PM Reply	But what about current machines? Are we saying that PowerPC will go away completely as an OS X platform? Are PPC owners going to be further marginalized by this? As if I didn't have enough other crap going on..... Tom Sinclair "Subverting Young Minds Since 03/13/2000"
Post #46,035 by orion 7/18/02 9:47:22 PM Reply	The way I see it Apple doesn't want OSX running on any hardware that they cannot control. For current WINTEL systems there is always Darwin. But for specially made Apple WINTEL systems there is OSX WINTEL. Apple wouldn't do it unless they had complete control over the hardware and could block access to it from other systems. So that only Apple Brand X86 systems will run it. The reason for the X86 hardware is to build a cheaper Macintosh. With an AMD CPU and PC/ATX/FlexATX hardware Apple can build an OSX system for under $1000USD or even $600USD and compete in the Unix market against Linux, OpenBSD, Solaris, and even SCO Unix that run on cheaper hardware. The PowerMac line would not be phased out, but I cannot see the X86 Apple systems running PowerMac code. I would imagine that Jobs needs cheap Unix workstations that also are easy to use and configure? At first they would run Darwin, until they can port the rest of OSX to it. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #46,039 by orion 7/18/02 10:39:07 PM Reply	Let me explain it another way, Dual Citizenship! The main product would be the PowerPC based Macs. The secondary platform would be MacX86 based. The PowerMac would not run MacX86 code and the MacX86 would not run PowerMac code, but with a switch in OSX you could compile for either platform. It would not be like the 68K Macs verses the PowerMacs, it would be a dual system support. Apple's Benefits of the MacX86: #1 Cheaper Hardware #2 Less chance of a chip shortage like the PowerPC based Macs #3 Able to dual-boot to Windows, Linux, etc. #4 Able to run X86 NeXTStep software. At one time NeXTStep was written for Intel processors. Why abandon all that code? #5 Apple can compete against Gateway. Dell, IBM, Compaq, and others for cheaper PC systems. The MacX86 can run the same software as the rest of them. #6 Apple will most likely tweak the PC ROM to incude code converted from the PowerMac ROM. Maybe Quickdraw and other features will be used in the MacX86 ROM? #7 The lower price will have Apple compete against cheapie Wal-Mart sold Linux boxes and other cheaper systems that run Linux, OpenBSD, etc. #8 It will be sold to Unix shops that normally buy WINTEL hardware and run Unix on them as a workstation. OSX for MacX86 would give a low cost Unix Workstation that is easier to configure and install than your usual brand of Unix. All of the Unix features without a huge cost of the hardware. #9 It would be a big boon for Pre-Installed Unix systems to have Apple sell them via the web store. So people can run Unix via OSX on X86 systems without spending a lot of money on PowerMac or more expensive systems. #10 Apple could ultimately make a PCI expansion card to let generic PC clones run OSX, sort of like a dongle device. That way they can curb piracy and control what systems get to run OSX. The PowerMac would not be dead, but instead this would be an alternative to a PowerMac and/or Unix/Linux/OpenBSD systems. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #46,049 by tjsinclair 7/19/02 1:50:16 AM Reply	Still can't see the added value Apple-only x86 hardware would still be at a premium price, due to all of the Apple mods. (Premium compared to Wintel PCs, anyway.) UNIX shops that want Intel hardware workstations will just buy the cheapest box they can and install Linux/BSD/Solaris. I don't think Darwin is in nearly the polished condition of say, Red Hat 7.3. (And that's saying something...) Tom Sinclair "Subverting Young Minds Since 03/13/2000"
Post #46,052 by orion 7/19/02 3:07:37 AM Reply	Maybe I am wrong maybe Apple wants AMD to produce PowerPC chips for another source of supplies of them besides IBM and Motorola? Maybe Apple wants a WINTEL machine so that users can dual-boot Windows and Darwin or Linux on it? Maybe they have no real plans, but are just considering it? Kind of reminds me of Sun workstations, one using SPARC and the other using Intel chips. But you are right, with the Apple modifications it will cost more than a WINTEL clone. But would it still cost less than a PowerMac? Lucky Goldstar, or LG Electronics, who made the G3 iMac, also makes WINTEL clones, it would be easy for Apple to outsource the MacX86 to LG in Korea to keep the prices low. Maybe $700USD or $800USD instead of $600USD? Of course consider the X86 based Amiga systems: [link\|http://www.computing-extreme.com/amiga/amigaxpricing.html\|[link\|http://www.computing-extreme.com/amiga/amigaxpricing.html\|http://www.computin...pricing.html]] They are priced a bit higher than normal WINTEL Clones, they can run Linux, Windows, AmigaOS XL, etc. Amiga decided to make X86 based Amigas to extend the life of the Amiga and to make cheaper Amiga systems. Of course the software also works on almost any modern X86 PC Clone system, not just Amiga brand ones. Does this mean that the G3/G4 AmigaOne is kaput? Not really, it is just a different standard and different system. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*

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