Vegetables farms

Post #433,397 by crazy 4/5/20 10:27:09 AM 4/5/20 10:27:09 AM Reply	Vegetables farms Aka, fields of broccoli. No, I'm talking about old people on vents in vent farms. Yeah, they call them broccoli. Do we take them off to reuse the vents (and they die) or leave them on and kill a lot of people who might recover in a couple of weeks. Save one old guy who's 90 years old who is catotonic and will never wakeup gives versus 12 to 24 people over a year. Yeah, for some this terrible, for others it is a daily horror taking care of people who blink to communicate and want it to end, but religious stupidity keeps them plugged in.
Post #433,402 by boxley 4/5/20 4:40:04 PM 4/5/20 4:40:04 PM Reply	who is paying for the vegetables, pretty sure its not the gummint "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,404 by crazy 4/5/20 4:52:26 PM 4/5/20 4:52:26 PM Reply	You'd be wrong Medicare, Medicaid, insurance, etc. You may think all these are "paid for" but you'd be wrong. 1 WORTHLESS (yeah, I said it, no intrinsic value there, none), for 20 or so. Your death panel is here, a random stressed doctor who has to make a decision. Weigh in. Or avoid like you usually do. You don't work in this environment nor do you have ongoing contact. So without a decent rational your opinion is worthless. Go ahead, give me something religious. You've spent years trolling. Step up or be the idiot others think you are.
Post #433,406 by boxley 4/5/20 5:32:09 PM 4/5/20 5:32:09 PM Reply	you must be undermedicating :-) the point I was trying to make is that if there is private money keeping those folks sucking air, then a public denial of service would be a taking. if it is public money then I have no issues with removing them and sending them to hospitals. Personally I have a document that states if I cannot suck my own air after 24hrs on one of those things unplug it and give to someone it can help. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,403 by boxley 4/5/20 4:47:15 PM 4/5/20 4:47:15 PM Reply	also wonder if the bazzillion cpap machines out there could be put to better use "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,405 by crazy 4/5/20 4:58:24 PM 4/5/20 5:17:15 PM Reply	Yeah like I wonder if Glenn Beck raped and killed a girl https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beck_v._Eiland-Hall It's a bullshit talking point you are repeating to distract from the actual issue. And yes I'm pissed. You doing exactly what I thought you would. You're doing a distracting troll. Either you're a moron or you're an a****** right now. By the way Margaret says hi and loved your hair at the wedding. Edited by crazy April 5, 2020, 05:06:48 PM EDT Edited by crazy April 5, 2020, 05:17:15 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #433,408 by boxley 4/5/20 5:33:47 PM 4/5/20 5:33:47 PM Reply	and here is why you cant use cpap in a hospital setting, didnt look it up before https://theweek.com/speedreads/906406/ventilators-donated-by-elon-musk-cant-used-coronavirus-patients-health-officials-say but if the hospitals are plugged and you are stuck at home it may be worth a try "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,409 by lincoln 4/5/20 5:37:07 PM 4/5/20 5:37:07 PM Reply	Re: Vegetables farms Fox News medical contributor Dr. Nicole Saphier on Sunday said COVID-19 patients would soon need to be removed from ventilators even if they cannot breathe on their own. "There's going to be more deaths this coming week," Saphier said on Fox & Friends. "The reason I try and explain that to people is although our rates of hospitalization are going down, that is a good thing." "But we're going to start seeing more deaths," she continued. "Because the people that are having to be in the ICU on the ventilators, they are being kept on the ventilators from anywhere one to four weeks." Saphier argued that "at some point, they will have to come off the ventilators." "And they're either going to survive or they're either going to die," she added. "Some of the mortality rates coming out of China are ranging from 60 to 90% of people on the ventilators [who die]. Thankfully, here in the United States, that number varies." https://crooksandliars.com/2020/04/fox-news-doc-its-time-covid-19-patients Satan (impatiently) to Newcomer: The trouble with you Chicago people is, that you think you are the best people down here; whereas you are merely the most numerous. - - - Mark Twain, "Pudd'nhead Wilson's New Calendar" 1897
Post #433,411 by crazy 4/6/20 4:35:57 AM 4/6/20 4:35:57 AM Reply	Not my point The vast majority of active ventilator use (not emergency in hospitals but in nursing homes) is long term use. People who are vegetables or a variation thereof. Wife is a geriatric nurse so her/my viewpoint is a bit colored, but INFORMED. Many thousands non responsive people on these machines for many YEARS. The vast majority are there because spouse/children refuse to let go, often based on religious "reasoning". WTF!?!?! How many bright young people have to die to keep these old vegetables alive!? Box thinks because some of the ones are "paid for", ie: private, and are locked in place forever. He's wrong. Money equals life for Box, even stupid used up non functioning life Right box? Hehehe. This shit is going to get a lot rougher. Hey, MM, you got your kids close? Be safe. This might be hitting your target end of world scenario.
Post #433,418 by boxley 4/6/20 12:51:48 PM 4/6/20 12:51:48 PM Reply	money = it aint yers to take if you didnt pay for it "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,425 by Ashton 4/6/20 4:34:11 PM 4/6/20 4:34:11 PM Reply	Yeah.. that's perzackly the, 'Everything is a Transaction'---juvenile mindset of The Menace Wanta re-phrase or: is that really! Your overall raison d'etre TOO?
Post #433,429 by boxley 4/6/20 5:57:32 PM 4/6/20 5:57:33 PM Reply	nope, I believe the people own property, not the government "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,433 by crazy 4/6/20 7:23:11 PM 4/6/20 7:23:11 PM Reply	Defense Production Act - fine, I accept your argument Determine what the value is, pay it out. Just like he's forcing 3M and others to do his bidding. Perfectly legal. I can guarantee you that the vent provider does not promise the vent forever. Just because someone is on it now, they do not own THAT vent. They rent it. And someone else can come along and rent it. Use the same formula for 9/11 compensation fund if you really think this is a financial transaction and the vegetable needs to be paid for.
Post #433,436 by boxley 4/6/20 9:28:30 PM 4/6/20 9:28:31 PM Reply	thats fine, eminent domain is acceptable now we have solved the lack of ventilators what do we do for all the meds it takes to keep someone on them? We are rapidly running out of that as well "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,440 by crazy 4/7/20 7:43:23 AM 4/7/20 7:43:23 AM Reply	Dunno Save who you can while you can.
Post #433,451 by Ashton 4/7/20 7:58:19 PM 4/7/20 7:58:19 PM Reply	Brief mantra helps.. Stay fully aware When leaving your lair (From 'twilight-awakening', doubtless from Piet Hein's Grooks ..as mind doesn't Sleep :-)
Post #433,410 by Another Scott 4/5/20 6:15:39 PM 4/5/20 6:15:39 PM Reply	Is this an issue? I would suspect that hospitals already have policies in place. E.g. https://www.mnhospitals.org/Portals/0/Documents/patientsafety/HAI/StCloud_MechVentStandardsofCare.pdf (7 page .pdf) IOW, the decision is made before someone is put on a vent. If they were worth putting on a vent, there was at least some expectation that they might have a chance of survival (though, IIRC, long-term survival on a vent is only about 20%). If someone new comes in and needs a vent and they don't have one available, they'll try to move that new person to a place that does. I doubt that hospitals are in the position of having to decide to take someone off a vent to make it available for someone else. Are there any numbers? Cheers, Scott.
Post #433,412 by crazy 4/6/20 5:08:49 AM 4/6/20 5:08:49 AM Reply	Yes Nothing to do with hospitals. Vent farms / wings within nursing homes. 20 to 40 thousand individuals. This number is low but I didn't want to be accused of exaggerating. That's hundreds of thousands saved throughout the pandemic.
Post #433,413 by mmoffitt 4/6/20 8:07:35 AM 4/6/20 8:07:35 AM Reply	And if one of the saved is a Wall St broker, or a Zuckerberg, can you really say it's worth it? bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #433,414 by crazy 4/6/20 8:49:11 AM 4/6/20 8:49:11 AM Reply	Will not engage in stupid argument This is life and death.
Post #433,420 by mmoffitt 4/6/20 1:28:41 PM 4/6/20 1:28:41 PM Reply	Too late. You already made one. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #433,415 by Another Scott 4/6/20 11:16:44 AM 4/6/20 11:16:44 AM Reply	New to me. I'm not aware of nursing homes having "vent wings". Ventilators usually/always require ICUs because of the risk of infection, etc. Nursing homes (at least the ones I've seen) aren't equipped for that. Are there such things? Or are you worried/predicting that such things might be needed? Thanks. Cheers, Scott.
Post #433,416 by crazy 4/6/20 11:38:13 AM 4/6/20 11:38:13 AM Reply	They exist all over the place M has 30+ years experience working in such places. That's why the subject came up.
Post #433,435 by Another Scott 4/6/20 8:56:13 PM 4/6/20 8:56:13 PM Reply	Thanks. (I replied earlier, but I guess it didn't take.) I wasn't aware of such things. :-( Balloon-Juice: StringOnAStick APRIL 6, 2020 AT 5:12 PM A friend’s god daughter is a respiratory therapist. According to her, what they are seeing is if patients remain on a ventilator for longer than 10 days, they come off it at 20 days because that’s about when they die. FWIW. Cheers, Scott.
Post #433,419 by boxley 4/6/20 12:53:28 PM 4/6/20 12:53:28 PM Reply	crazy is correct, many wings in large nursing homes are vented "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,422 by mmoffitt 4/6/20 1:38:06 PM 4/6/20 1:38:06 PM Reply	Here's a couple old articles. https://www.journalpulmonology.org/pt-long-term-ventilator-dependent-patients-new-facilities-articulo-S0873215912000396 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8707138 bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #433,426 by Ashton 4/6/20 4:53:39 PM 4/6/20 4:53:39 PM Reply	(Unnecessary) confirmation of just how long this has plagued the dis-US.. A Nurse--a couple of my acquaintance--50 Years Ago (not hyperbole) described similar 'wings'--of basically, vegetables-kept-"alive" for usual religio sacred-logic OR {worse} ... some financial advantage to the living--how-fucking-American is That?--in this particular broccoili or parsnip: being not-yet Officially-dead. It's hardly 'New' the cupidity of our virulent-strain of daft 'Mores' and hypocritical Folkways--disguising our Real National Bird--the Vulture. (We compound the matter-of-Fact by) Not-telling our spawn: The. Truth. behind those lying school text-books and B.S.-anthems about our perpetual-Wonderfulness.
Post #433,430 by crazy 4/6/20 7:04:44 PM 4/6/20 7:04:44 PM Reply	So in 2012 it was 300k expected to 600k in 2020 Like I said, my estimate was very low. So, want to save a million plus people? Empty the vent farms of anyone nonresponsive for over a year.
Post #433,431 by crazy 4/6/20 7:11:16 PM 4/6/20 7:11:16 PM Reply	But check for locked in syndrome There have been enormous advances in the ability to communicate with people in this state. If you think you're killing someone then go through a couple of days of these tests. You'll find many of them will say turn the goddamn thing off.
Post #433,432 by boxley 4/6/20 7:15:23 PM 4/6/20 7:15:23 PM Reply	I would agree with you on that "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #433,441 by mmoffitt 4/7/20 9:07:43 AM 4/7/20 9:07:43 AM Reply	No argument. I had to talk my late mother into turning my dad's vent off. This was made extremely more difficult after a woman whose husband had been transferred from a nursing home who'd been on a vent for a protracted amount of time encouraged her not to d/c his ventilator. It was one of the more difficult things I've had to do. Dad was 77 and up until an acute cardiac event, had been relatively healthy. But, in less intense times, all of us agreed that if we were unresponsive for 48 hours, the machines should be turned off. My mom finally relented, but it was an acutely stressful time, made vastly worse by a church lady. I continue to marvel at the fact that these Christian tribes with their claimed belief in a promised immortality post death are the very people who are most afraid of that death and will do anything, sane or otherwise, to keep their alleged loved ones in a vegetative state indefinitely. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised at the cruelty these Luddites are capable of inflicting, their blatant hypocrisy or the fact that all of that is lost upon them. However, I confess, I still find it startling. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #433,442 by a6l6e6x 4/7/20 10:33:08 AM 4/7/20 10:33:08 AM Reply	Hypocrisy is the key word. It's not what they say that counts, it's what they do. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov
Post #433,452 by Ashton 4/7/20 8:01:17 PM 4/7/20 8:01:17 PM Reply	(and what they dare-not do, though it rhymes-better)

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