As true today as they were last year

Post #418,885 by rcareaga 7/14/17 7:45:23 PM 7/14/17 7:45:23 PM Reply	As true today as they were last year Pierce’s words, posted on this date in 2016, may serve as a useful reminder to the hoocoodanode? crowd, the ninnies who said that there was no difference between the two major candidates, that Trump wouldn’t be that bad and might even be better, that they weren’t going to sully their lofty principles by lifting a finger on behalf of the Dread Butch Hillary—to all those (nice shoes, huh? Try ’em on, why don’t you) who profess astonishment and dismay today while persisting in their claim that no one could have predicted how bad it could get in just six months, well... Damn all the people who will vote for him, and damn any progressives who sit this one out because Hillary Rodham Clinton is wrong on this issue or that one. Damn all the people who are suggesting they do that. And damn all members of the media who treat this dangerous fluke of a campaign as being in any way business as usual. Any support for He, Trump is, at this point, an act of moral cowardice. Anyone who supports him, or runs with him, or enables his victory, or even speaks well of him, is a traitor to the American idea. Preach it, Brother Pierce. Never let them forget. (Oh, and I’m supposed to be solicitous of the sensibilities of this lot, lest they sit out the mid-terms or vote Green in 2020? Bite me.) cordially,
Post #418,889 by Another Scott 7/15/17 10:25:59 AM 7/15/17 10:25:59 AM Reply	Obligatory... :-/ Cheers, Scott.
Post #418,897 by hnick 7/15/17 6:11:54 PM 7/15/17 6:11:54 PM Reply	solicitous for sooth... Yes, I understand your pique about perfectionists who are single issue voters. Your contempt for those that did not toe the line and enthusiastically endorse a severely flawed candidate washes over, uncomfortably, those of us who held our noses and voted for a very inferior candidate as the lesser of evils. In your political world, is there no place for a person in a representative democracy who would like their own views represented? Possibly ahead of the lobbyists? Or are you pushing a cash and carry democracy as well? The DNC picked a very flawed strategy and Hillary followed the money. That's not the voters problem. Not voting for someone who publicly pissed on them seems unsurprising. That's the DNC's problem. Could you please contain your vituperation for those who deserve it? "Religion, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable." ~ AMBROSE BIERCE (1842-1914)
Post #418,898 by rcareaga 7/15/17 8:52:40 PM 7/15/17 8:52:40 PM Reply	Since you asked. My vituperation is aimed right where it belongs. Not voting for someone who publicly pissed on them seems unsurprising. And the people who did not vote for someone you assert pissed on them helped elect a president who is very publicly shitting on all of us. I’m glad to learn that you held your nose. Not everyone here could be troubled to. Although I came to regard the Sage of Burlington as a cranky back-bencher, I would have voted for him unhesitatingly had he secured the nomination. The notion, advanced by so many Sanders dead-enders, that the “economically insecure” knuckle-dragging simpletons—you know, the “Fuck Your Feelings” t-shirt set—were going to forsake Trump and his red-meat message and flock to the banner of a Jewish atheist socialist from New England, strikes me as unpersuasive, not to say risible. I’ll spare your sensibilities and not repeat for the nth time Tbogg’s Epistle to the Purity Ponies in its entirety, except to remind you that yes indeed, it would be lovely if we did not dwell in a cash-and-carry democracy, but that we don’t in fact live there, and that stamping our feet and holding our breath ain’t going to change that. Anyone and everyone with whom the truth of Pierce’s words still did not resonate by last November, everyone who sat out the election or cast a third-party protest vote, deserves the contempt of every decent person, and has coming every gallon of shit that Trump spews over him (my “vituperation” should be the least of their concerns. To repeat: bite me). The rest of us, not so much. cordially,
Post #418,899 by boxley 7/15/17 9:53:12 PM 7/15/17 9:53:12 PM Reply	what in particular is in that excrement that you have issues with? Since he has not been able to do much of anything with the dems solidly against everything he wants to do and mavericks in his party bolting in hysteria at every nauseous tweet, he hasn't ed zachary accomplished much of anything at all. The only concrete thing he has managed was appointing a supreme, and there has not been a hard right turn there since he squatted on the bench "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #418,900 by Ashton 7/16/17 4:37:24 AM 7/16/17 4:37:24 AM Reply	Jeez, Box, lookin fer an encyclopedia of aberrations (indented-outline maybe?) Shrinks take lots of time and charge much for an essay aimed at some "pretend-naif?" (all wide-eyed and wondering why so many might harbor unkind thoughts) about ..a truculent child, seen to play with blasting caps, invent alt-'facts' and to engage in mindless destruction of many essentials of a/ of any "society". So what are You after? the mindless destruction, senseless violence ..or a titrated mixture? Carrion, often made from minced words.
Post #418,901 by CRConrad 7/16/17 6:43:11 AM 7/16/17 6:43:11 AM Reply	Don't you even have the decency to at least hate yourself for spewing such utter bullshit as that? You fucking well should.
Post #418,903 by boxley 7/16/17 10:26:51 AM 7/16/17 10:26:51 AM Reply	nope, do you have an actual list of what he has accomplished? maybe I missed something "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #418,907 by a6l6e6x 7/16/17 2:44:05 PM 7/16/17 2:44:44 PM Reply	Dakota Access Pipeline approval over native American objections? Executive order -- Done. Wiki: Political ties According to his federal disclosure forms, filed in May 2016, President Donald Trump held between $15,000 and $50,000 in stock in Energy Transfer Partners – down from $500,000 to $1 million in 2015 – and between $100,000 and $250,000 in Phillips 66. This creates a conflict of interest when making presidential decisions affecting the pipeline project. The senior Democrat on the Public Resources Committee, Raul Grijalva, called this appearance of conflict of interest "disturbing".[147] The Washington Post reported that Trump sold off his shares in Energy Transfer Partners in the summer of 2016.[148] The credibility of this claim has been questioned.[149] Trump is also indirectly linked to the project because Energy Transfer Partners CEO Kelcy Warren contributed $103,000 to the Trump campaign.[150][151] Trump has said that he supports the completion of the pipeline project. According to his transition team this position "has nothing to do with his personal investments and everything to do with promoting policies that benefit all Americans."[152] A former staffer of Iowa Governor Terry Branstad re-election campaign, Susan Fenton, who is now the director of government affairs with the Des Moines public relations firm LS2, is handling public relations for Energy Transfer.[153] Texas governor Rick Perry was member of the Energy Transfer Partners and Sunoco Logistics Partners boards of directors but resigned after Trump selected Perry as his nomination for Energy Secretary In December 2016.[154] Kelcy Warren had contributed $6 million to Perry's 2016 Presidential campaign.[155] System working as designed. Alex "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." -- Isaac Asimov Edited by a6l6e6x July 16, 2017, 02:44:44 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #418,908 by boxley 7/16/17 2:56:38 PM 7/16/17 2:56:38 PM Reply	pipelines are safer than railcars. All of the permits were in place "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #418,909 by Ashton 7/16/17 4:15:31 PM 7/16/17 4:15:31 PM Reply	Well, under Prez-invested Toxic Attacks ... on all living things.. there's this: Alberta has over 1 trillion liters of toxic tailings ponds. And they keep growing. (Was going to cite "Wedding Day at Trollhaugen" as a submission for Box's leitmotif;) alas.. it's spelled "Troldhaugen", so the 'nick is a FAIL/..too many words. Oh. Well.
Post #418,919 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 8:28:33 AM 7/17/17 8:28:33 AM Reply	TPP. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,904 by Another Scott 7/16/17 1:51:14 PM 7/16/17 1:51:14 PM Reply	Shall we count the ways? The Teabaggers have the majority in the House and Senate and the White House. And most of the courts. Them being unable to pass their agenda isn't somehow the Democrats fault. It's their incompetence. (Yes, I know about 60 votes in the Senate. Explain the House inaction to me...) But what have they done? - conspired with Russia to steal elections for the White House and (at the very least) House races - stealing a Supreme Court seat - violating the Emoluments clause of the Constitution - fired all the US Attorneys in an attempt to disguise the sacking of Preet Bharara for his investigation against Russian money laundering via Trump's properties - unleashing ICE on innocent people - attempting to destroy immigration from Muslim countries - immigrants who work in rural healthcare, etc., etc. - gutting the State Department - attempting to destroy international agreements (Paris, TPP, TTIP, etc.) - helping to destroy NATO and the EU to reward his "friend" Vlad - rewarding dictators and wannabe dictators (Duterte, Erdogan, Putin, etc.) - getting us more deeply involved in Syria and other unwinnable wars - acting as a bully against Qatar - apparently at least in part to try to pressure investors in Jr's 666 white elephant You get the idea. Those are just off the top of my head. Just because the Teabaggers have been incompetent at passing legislation (thus far) doesn't mean that they and Donnie aren't doing tremendous damage. I assume you're doing your part to defeat the BCRAP bill in the Senate. Right? HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #418,906 by boxley 7/16/17 2:43:32 PM 7/16/17 2:43:32 PM Reply	Re: Shall we count the ways? - conspired with Russia to steal elections for the White House and (at the very least) House races If you have proof of that notify the FBI please - stealing a Supreme Court seat How is that done? I didnt know a seat was missing - violating the Emoluments clause of the Constitution Again if you have proof that drumpf is taking a bribe, please notify the HBI please - fired all the US Attorneys in an attempt to disguise the sacking of Preet Bharara for his investigation against Russian money laundering via Trump's properties How come you didnt want Obama fired for firing the US attorneys? If I remember right you were cheering at the time because the Liberty U gomers were sent off - unleashing ICE on innocent people while I disagree on US law on immigration ICE is enforcing current law. - attempting to destroy immigration from Muslim countries - immigrants who work in rural healthcare, etc., etc. we did it to the japanese, chinese, irish, italians and the Jews. Not to say it is right, just ample precendent from the past - gutting the State Department ? gonna need to expand on that one, Haven't seen an bews on that. - attempting to destroy international agreements (Paris, TPP, TTIP, etc.) attempting isnt done - helping to destroy NATO and the EU to reward his "friend" Vlad you will need to expand on that, He was just in Poland affirming the alliance. Altho maybe he heard he was down in the Polls so he went there to shore them up - rewarding dictators and wannabe dictators (Duterte, Erdogan, Putin, etc.) How is he rewarding them? You got copies of the checks he sent? - getting us more deeply involved in Syria and other unwinnable wars no question on that one - acting as a bully against Qatar - apparently at least in part to try to pressure investors in Jr's 666 white elephant What is he doing to Qatar? He is getting people involved to help them out? Sounds like you are watching too much fox news "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,024 by Another Scott 7/20/17 8:56:51 AM 7/20/17 8:56:51 AM Reply	Related: Joel Clement at WaPo - I'm a scientist not an accountant. Washington Post: I am not a member of the deep state. I am not big government. I am a scientist, a policy expert, a civil servant and a worried citizen. Reluctantly, as of today, I am also a whistleblower on an administration that chooses silence over science. Nearly seven years ago, I came to work for the Interior Department, where, among other things, I’ve helped endangered communities in Alaska prepare for and adapt to a changing climate. But on June 15, I was one of about 50 senior department employees who received letters informing us of involuntary reassignments. Citing a need to “improve talent development, mission delivery and collaboration,” the letter informed me that I was reassigned to an unrelated job in the accounting office that collects royalty checks from fossil fuel companies. [...] Yeah, but they haven't done anything yet, it's all propaganda... Cheers, Scott.
Post #419,045 by boxley 7/20/17 6:25:36 PM 7/20/17 6:25:36 PM Reply	sure, trump called down there and said get rid of that guy not hardly. He was helping communities prepare for climate change. Instead they should be worrying about clean water and decent housing. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,049 by Another Scott 7/20/17 8:04:38 PM 7/20/17 8:04:38 PM Reply	People are policy. The federal government can do more than one thing at at time, when it has people in leadership who want to get good things done... Cheers, Scott.
Post #419,055 by Ashton 7/20/17 9:48:49 PM 7/20/17 9:48:49 PM Reply	"Instead.. ...." wtf Are you On? WND did scrambled your DNA; it will take vivisection, I wot.
Post #419,076 by boxley 7/21/17 4:42:38 PM 7/21/17 4:42:38 PM Reply	so preparing for climate change is more important than clean drinking water, check "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,079 by Ashton 7/21/17 6:17:14 PM 7/21/17 6:17:14 PM Reply	Your full-Monty Black/White digital "reasoning"-for-an-effect insults MY ..and apparently Others' intelligence. Repeatedly.. almost 'without surcease', y'know, Bunkie? (And YES we. know. that you Are capable of regular-Reasoning).. but you don't "waste?" that effort on the denizens of This venue. [save on Rare occasion] And THAT's fucking-obvious. Carrion, sometimes it's in the form of mouth-noises
Post #419,083 by drook 7/21/17 9:28:53 PM 7/21/17 9:28:53 PM Reply	Which is more important: your left eye or your right eye? -- Drew
Post #419,087 by boxley 7/21/17 10:41:33 PM 7/21/17 10:41:33 PM Reply	kicking and clawing your way past the homeless wretches to claim your positions as champions of the of the people with winks and nods to your fellow intelligensia as you shovel the needy away from the troughs of power is how it looks from down here. take journalism for example https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/21/media-war-trump-destined-fail "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,090 by drook 7/22/17 12:16:35 AM 7/22/17 12:16:35 AM Reply	"Down here" WTF you kidding? It's not a choice of, "preparing for climate change is more important than clean drinking water". As AScott said a bit up-thread, the federal government can do more than one thing at at time. So it should be "preparing for climate change and clean drinking water." -- Drew
Post #419,095 by boxley 7/22/17 10:19:23 AM 7/22/17 10:19:23 AM Reply	it must be a choice, preparing for climate change while allowing for flint michegan happened and down here means us folks at the bottom who can only see the soles of the feet of the folks feeding from that federal trough "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,097 by drook 7/22/17 10:32:29 AM 7/22/17 10:32:29 AM Reply	That dichotomy isn't even false Destroying the environment and destroying the Flint water system are caused by the same thing. But you know that. You do know that, right? -- Drew
Post #419,100 by boxley 7/22/17 1:40:58 PM 7/22/17 1:40:59 PM Reply	destroying the environment, so you walk to work and store now, good to know "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #419,133 by Ashton 7/23/17 2:58:05 PM 7/23/17 2:58:05 PM Reply	OK.. I do drink water Also breathe air. Also LIKE having the [n+n-thousand Animals still-alive and WELL] Do not thrive ...WHEREVER I AM ... in triple-digit TEMPS. Do not condone "saving $$ for billionaire-buddies" of a mental 'Prez', via gutting as many programs aimed at preserving wild-life (or even JUST. LIFE.) Need moar? YOUR climate-∆-denying, nasty-mouthed/oft iggerant mentors represent SPECIES'-DEATH == ALL of them, not just Our drain-bamaged LIFE-despising assholes of 2001 +/- Look: Don Quixote already ran through your program(s) way-back: the Windmills in Netherlands ... continue to respond to F=MA/wind-in-action. But 'tis an ill-wind which blows balderdash.
Post #419,356 by CRConrad 7/31/17 6:06:52 AM 7/31/17 6:06:52 AM Reply	This kind of BS from BO is why I take a year or three off from this place every now and again. You know you're behaving like an arsehole, don't you, BOx? That this intellectual dishonesty you practice is infuriating, insulting, and beneath even you? (You can't be quite as stupid as you're trying to come off as.) And yet, you keep doing it, year after year. Ever seeen Forrest Gump? I think it is he who says, "Stupid is as stupid does". Applied here, it becomes "Arsehole is as arsehole does". -- Christian R. Conrad Same old username (as above), but now on iki.fi (Yeah, yeah, it redirects to the same old GMail... But just in case I ever want to change.)
Post #418,920 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 8:41:58 AM 7/17/17 8:47:34 AM Reply	Piss off. This kind of attack is going to be just swell for November, 2018. It's pretty damned clear (and yes, count me among those who is surprised) that the 4 in 10 Americans who put Donnie in the White House are going to show up at the polls and vote for these knuckle-draggers again. I didn't think that was possible. Back in college I had a history prof who used to like to say, "If you want to discredit the Right, give them the floor." I confess I had too much faith in the American People. Despite my lifelong experience living among them, I still believed they were educable, if hit sufficiently in the head with a two-by-four. Drumpf looked to me to be the two-by-four which might awaken them. I tried to warn you and warn you early. Before she won the nomination, I told you that Hillary could not win Indiana - and I got some pushback for that! I knew she'd lose Indiana by a whopping margin, but I didn't know she was thick enough to fail to visit Wisconsin, thereby handing Drumpf YAN flyover state and I feared that the Obama Administration's abominable treatment of Union Workers in Detroit might put Michigan in jeopardy. But hey, at least we aren't the other guys, so they should have voted for the New Democratic Party who cut their wages in half and eliminated their pensions anyway, amirite? YOU VOTED FOR HILLARY IN THE FUCKING PRIMARY! You want to know who is responsible for Drumpf? Find a mirror. You didn't listen in 2016 and it sure as hell sounds like you're still not going to listen. That doesn't bode well for any of us. p.s. You're continuing regurgitation of the Clinton talking point that Bernie couldn't have won is beginning to be clear to even the most jaded of myopic minds to be the horseshit propaganda it always was. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again. Edited by mmoffitt July 17, 2017, 08:47:34 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #418,921 by Another Scott 7/17/17 8:46:53 AM 7/17/17 8:46:53 AM Reply	(sigh)
Post #418,923 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 9:04:36 AM 7/17/17 9:04:36 AM Reply	You've no right to sigh. I am the one who should be sighing. I am the one who tried to sound the alarm about Hillary during the primary. I believed and said so at the time that her nomination would turn the Presidential Election into (at least) a horse race when it should have been a blow-out. It meant handing Drumpf the Red States and Swing States that Obama had won in 2008 over to the Republicans and that we could not win with coastal votes only. Nominating Hillary meant there was no point in my voting and I knew it. Rand and you argued (and Rand is still arguing) for my excoriation because I recognized the futility of voting for the top of the ticket in 2016 (I did vote, but abstained from voting for President). The election in Indiana turned out exactly as I knew it would: Statewide Trump: 56.5% Clinton: 37.5% Johnson: 4.9% Others: 1.2% The county I live in? Trump: 73.4% Clinton: 21.7% Johnson: 4.7% Yet, sages such as Rand and Pierce are giving me advice on Presidential politics. That's sigh worthy. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,926 by Another Scott 7/17/17 9:35:08 AM 7/17/17 9:35:08 AM Reply	Hillary won the popular vote. She wasn't the problem - Trump and the Teabaggers are the problem. That you still choose to attack her with far greater vehemence than you do Trump and the Teabaggers is a bit flabbergasting to me. Hillary has no power now. Let it go. Fight the real enemy. Quit doing Putin's and the Teabaggers' work for them. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #418,927 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 10:02:01 AM 7/17/17 10:02:01 AM Reply	I'm not beating up Hillary. I'm pointing out that you were wrong about the general last time. I live in a very, very Republican county in a very Republican state. I talked to a great number of very Red Republicans and they each confided in me that they'd voted for Obama in 2008. They didn't want their friends to know that they'd done that, but felt safe telling me that because they knew that (as one of my flight instructors often said, "Moffitt's my favorite Liberal.") Every single one of them who'd voted for Obama gave me exactly the same reason: "Sara Palin couldn't be a heartbeat away." I haven't spoken to them about Drumpf, but I'm positive they voted for Drumpf and I'm equally certain they had the same unease about Drumpf that they had about Palin. The point is that these people, as uneasy as they were about Drumpf, could not make themselves vote for Hillary Clinton. The point, my friend, is that these people (Reds that voted for Obama in 2008) are ripe for the picking BUT in order to win, you need the half of the Democratic Party that voted for Bernie and will not simply vote for the Democratic candidate, no matter how Right Wing, for the sake of the Party. My warning this go 'round is simply this: Do not alienate them further. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,928 by rcareaga 7/17/17 12:06:40 PM 7/17/17 12:06:40 PM Reply	Sure you want to go there, son? You left an ample trail of “Trump might not be that bad” posts that kinda cloud up those crystal balls you’re so proud of. I stand by my original post in every particular. cordially,
Post #418,930 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 12:59:22 PM 7/17/17 12:59:22 PM Reply	Keep doing the same thing over and over. It'll change some time. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,929 by drook 7/17/17 12:07:46 PM 7/17/17 12:07:46 PM Reply	Speaking of people who were wrong last time It's pretty damned clear (and yes, count me among those who is surprised) that the 4 in 10 Americans who put Donnie in the White House are going to show up at the polls and vote for these knuckle-draggers again. I didn't think that was possible. Back in college I had a history prof who used to like to say, "If you want to discredit the Right, give them the floor." I confess I had too much faith in the American People. Despite my lifelong experience living among them, I still believed they were educable, if hit sufficiently in the head with a two-by-four. Drumpf looked to me to be the two-by-four which might awaken them. People here spent months telling you that you were wrong about all those things. And you were. And not only were you wrong about what they would do, you're wrong about why. It's not that they need to be educated, or that they need to be awakened. They know everything you want them to, and that's what they want. Trump says he will blow up the institutions and that's what they want. Trump says he will punish "the elites" and that's what they want. Trump says he will make life harder for immigrants and THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT! As long as people believe it's an education problem, they're going to keep fighting the wrong fight. -- Drew
Post #418,931 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 1:01:30 PM 7/17/17 1:01:30 PM Reply	He's declared war on them, though, and that's what they needed to learn. But apparently can't. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,945 by Another Scott 7/17/17 8:08:16 PM 7/17/17 8:08:16 PM Reply	I've got a Teabagger friend in the midwest, too. Have you asked you friends who voted for Obama in 2008 whether they voted for him in 2012? Were they "ripe for the picking" then? Somehow, I doubt it. Somehow all of these Hillary is So Horrible memes only appear when she runs for office. We know each others arguments backwards and forwards. ;-) There were too many weird things about the 2016 election to argue that Hillary lost because she was (somehow, in spite of getting more votes) rejected by the voters. But even if you're right, arguing that Berniewoodawon and beating up on the DNC and all the rest doesn't help defeat the Teabaggers and stop Donnie's destruction of the commonweal. Cheers, Scott.
Post #418,953 by mmoffitt 7/18/17 9:08:29 AM 7/18/17 9:08:29 AM Reply	No, they voted Romney in 2012. That's actually my point. It turns out the knuckle-draggers in these parts actually have a limit to their blind allegiance to the Republican Party. Palin was it in '08, but there wasn't a complete whack job (from their POV anyway - certainly not mine) on the Republican ticket in 2012. I'm saying that only Hillary Clinton could have lost in 2016 because the revulsion of Palin that caused them to switch sides in '08 would have been the revulsion of Trump that caused them to switch sides in '16 had virtually anyone but Hillary been the Democratic nominee. And yes, that includes Bernie, too! bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,956 by Another Scott 7/18/17 1:11:10 PM 7/18/17 1:15:24 PM Reply	And yet she beat Bernie AND she won the popular vote. Hmmm.... to continue... It was a close election for a lot of reasons. Close enough that 80,000 people - who didn't live in Indiana - changed the outcome. Your argument doesn't make much sense to me. I know lots of white men didn't like Hillary and would never vote for her. Lots of white women, also too. That doesn't mean that her campaign was doomed from the start or that the DNC is the Devil or all the other things that you seem to think are important. Comey was the ultimate reason why she lost - or, more accurately - why her popular vote margin was close enough for the Russians to flip the EC to Trump. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott. Edited by Another Scott July 18, 2017, 01:15:24 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #418,960 by mmoffitt 7/18/17 2:00:36 PM 7/18/17 2:00:36 PM Reply	This is a rerun. You're not going to convince me that Sanders would have performed worse than Clinton and I'm not going to convince you that Sanders could have actually won (the fact that he is today the most popular politician in the country notwithstanding). But I'd remind you that you said Clinton "could be competitive" in Indiana also, too. Indiana certainly wasn't decisive. But the Flyover Region was and the entire region is populated by folks not dissimilar from Hoosiers. I see stuff like this and it gives me great concern. It looks like the Democratic Party has already restarted its ever Rightward March to even new dizzying lengths. That's not going to win in 2018 or 2020. We've had essentially the same politics for 40 years. Drumpf is the end game, the terminus of the march entered into 40 years ago. If the Democrats are not prepared to completely reverse course, the nation as we know it won't survive. ... unless ... What I think now is that the country, our people and the world at large would benefit in the extreme if we got rid of the EC. An idea that likely has no chance, but it could save us - or at least, prolong our agony. My idea in 2015 and 2016 that "if only the flyover people could suffer the real consequences of what they've been asking for, they would never go down the Republican road again" was my biggest mistake. They are now, have always been and will always be entirely too ignorant to recognize even the most obvious of facts. They really should have no say whatsoever in how we are governed, let alone a disproportionate say. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,962 by drook 7/18/17 2:48:49 PM 7/18/17 2:48:49 PM Reply	Token reminder It's not that they're ignorant. That would imply that if you showed them the right information, in a way that they would believe you, they would agree with you. They won't. They understand the facts of what you're saying and disagree with your conclusions. -- Drew
Post #418,966 by pwhysall 7/18/17 4:34:03 PM 7/18/17 4:34:03 PM Reply	Show me one state... ...where an old white Jewish atheist socialist would have beaten Clinton. I honestly believe that the US would elect a gay woman before it'd elect an avowed atheist. Or a socialist. Or either. Or both.
Post #418,970 by rcareaga 7/18/17 9:18:30 PM 7/18/17 9:18:30 PM Reply	“Forget it, Pete. It’s mmoffittown.”
Post #418,982 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 8:19:48 AM 7/19/17 8:19:48 AM Reply	That is a toughy. Which state could the most popular politician in the entire country defeat one of the most unpopular politicians in the country? I mean, Sanders favorability is not even two percentage points higher than Hillary's unfavorability (Sanders 57% favorable, Clinton 55.3% unfavorable). That's a hopeless posit..., er, ... never mind. But don't let mere facts get in the way. This is Trump's America, we no longer have a need for facts. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,984 by Another Scott 7/19/17 8:32:26 AM 7/19/17 8:32:26 AM Reply	Hillary was (and maybe still is) the most popular woman in the country. Until she started running for President. Then the mud started flying (again). Polls like that don't mean anything when it comes to voting for President. Eichenwald from November. Berniewouldalost maybe in a blowout of biblical proportions. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #418,985 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 8:42:52 AM 7/19/17 8:42:52 AM Reply	Keep repeating it. Eventually everyone will believe it. Hillary won the nomination by winning the states no Democrat had a chance for in the general (and, of course, those "special" Super Delegates). With this weak showing (nearly losing to "an old Socialist Guy" when she had the entire machinery of the DNC backing her), she still didn't go to Wisconsin. What an idiot. But, as Rand and to a lesser extent you hasten to point out, it's not her fault she lost the election. It's all because of those damned Berniecrats! We Lefties ruined her coronation and no one's ever going to forgive us for that. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,987 by Another Scott 7/19/17 8:50:42 AM 7/19/17 8:50:42 AM Reply	She lost because of Comey (mostly). She beat Bernie.
Post #418,990 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 9:02:05 AM 7/19/17 9:02:05 AM Reply	Five Comeys shouldn't have mattered! Her opponent was Trump for $DEITY's sake! bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,991 by Another Scott 7/19/17 9:24:18 AM 7/19/17 9:24:18 AM Reply	"Shouldn't" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there...
Post #418,993 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 9:47:16 AM 7/19/17 9:47:16 AM Reply	A better candidate would have survived Comey. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,994 by pwhysall 7/19/17 10:12:08 AM 7/19/17 10:12:08 AM Reply	Bernie wouldn't. You don't get to be as old as him and still in politics without a shitload of embarrassment just waiting to be used against you. Wasn't there a story about the RNC and their 500 page war book of "shit Bernie doesn't want mentioned"?
Post #418,995 by Another Scott 7/19/17 11:07:28 AM 7/19/17 11:07:28 AM Reply	See the Eichenwald link in my "Hillary was" link above.
Post #418,998 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 11:36:34 AM 7/19/17 11:36:34 AM Reply	Advertised with Trump's speech about all things Clinton that never happened. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,013 by boxley 7/19/17 6:40:24 PM 7/19/17 6:40:24 PM Reply	blame everyone but the crap candidate "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #418,986 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 8:45:25 AM 7/19/17 8:45:25 AM Reply	Also, too. He replied, “Well, Stein, but—” I interrupted him and said, “You’re lucky it’s illegal for me to punch you in the face.” Then, after telling him to have sex with himself—but with a much cruder term—I turned and walked away. Yeah, I bet that really made him change his mind and vote for Hillary. It is just crazy she lost the election. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,988 by Another Scott 7/19/17 8:52:15 AM 7/19/17 8:52:15 AM Reply	It's an opinion/news piece. He's a reporter, not an outreach guy for the Democrats.
Post #419,011 by boxley 7/19/17 6:25:33 PM 7/19/17 6:25:33 PM Reply	even now she polls lower than trump. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #418,974 by boxley 7/18/17 10:39:28 PM 7/18/17 10:39:28 PM Reply	80k ineligable voters! best get all that state election info to the trump commision to fix that how many were non citizens? Or does the hysteria doesnt count when it is your hysteria? "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #418,979 by Another Scott 7/19/17 3:06:23 AM 7/19/17 3:06:24 AM Reply	Re: 80k ineligable voters! best get all that state election info to the trump commision to fix that https://www.brennancenter.org/legal-work HTH. Cheers, Scott.

Welcome to IWETHEY!