Piss off.

Post #418,920 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 8:41:58 AM 7/17/17 8:47:34 AM Reply	Piss off. This kind of attack is going to be just swell for November, 2018. It's pretty damned clear (and yes, count me among those who is surprised) that the 4 in 10 Americans who put Donnie in the White House are going to show up at the polls and vote for these knuckle-draggers again. I didn't think that was possible. Back in college I had a history prof who used to like to say, "If you want to discredit the Right, give them the floor." I confess I had too much faith in the American People. Despite my lifelong experience living among them, I still believed they were educable, if hit sufficiently in the head with a two-by-four. Drumpf looked to me to be the two-by-four which might awaken them. I tried to warn you and warn you early. Before she won the nomination, I told you that Hillary could not win Indiana - and I got some pushback for that! I knew she'd lose Indiana by a whopping margin, but I didn't know she was thick enough to fail to visit Wisconsin, thereby handing Drumpf YAN flyover state and I feared that the Obama Administration's abominable treatment of Union Workers in Detroit might put Michigan in jeopardy. But hey, at least we aren't the other guys, so they should have voted for the New Democratic Party who cut their wages in half and eliminated their pensions anyway, amirite? YOU VOTED FOR HILLARY IN THE FUCKING PRIMARY! You want to know who is responsible for Drumpf? Find a mirror. You didn't listen in 2016 and it sure as hell sounds like you're still not going to listen. That doesn't bode well for any of us. p.s. You're continuing regurgitation of the Clinton talking point that Bernie couldn't have won is beginning to be clear to even the most jaded of myopic minds to be the horseshit propaganda it always was. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again. Edited by mmoffitt July 17, 2017, 08:47:34 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #418,921 by Another Scott 7/17/17 8:46:53 AM 7/17/17 8:46:53 AM Reply	(sigh)
Post #418,923 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 9:04:36 AM 7/17/17 9:04:36 AM Reply	You've no right to sigh. I am the one who should be sighing. I am the one who tried to sound the alarm about Hillary during the primary. I believed and said so at the time that her nomination would turn the Presidential Election into (at least) a horse race when it should have been a blow-out. It meant handing Drumpf the Red States and Swing States that Obama had won in 2008 over to the Republicans and that we could not win with coastal votes only. Nominating Hillary meant there was no point in my voting and I knew it. Rand and you argued (and Rand is still arguing) for my excoriation because I recognized the futility of voting for the top of the ticket in 2016 (I did vote, but abstained from voting for President). The election in Indiana turned out exactly as I knew it would: Statewide Trump: 56.5% Clinton: 37.5% Johnson: 4.9% Others: 1.2% The county I live in? Trump: 73.4% Clinton: 21.7% Johnson: 4.7% Yet, sages such as Rand and Pierce are giving me advice on Presidential politics. That's sigh worthy. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,926 by Another Scott 7/17/17 9:35:08 AM 7/17/17 9:35:08 AM Reply	Hillary won the popular vote. She wasn't the problem - Trump and the Teabaggers are the problem. That you still choose to attack her with far greater vehemence than you do Trump and the Teabaggers is a bit flabbergasting to me. Hillary has no power now. Let it go. Fight the real enemy. Quit doing Putin's and the Teabaggers' work for them. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #418,927 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 10:02:01 AM 7/17/17 10:02:01 AM Reply	I'm not beating up Hillary. I'm pointing out that you were wrong about the general last time. I live in a very, very Republican county in a very Republican state. I talked to a great number of very Red Republicans and they each confided in me that they'd voted for Obama in 2008. They didn't want their friends to know that they'd done that, but felt safe telling me that because they knew that (as one of my flight instructors often said, "Moffitt's my favorite Liberal.") Every single one of them who'd voted for Obama gave me exactly the same reason: "Sara Palin couldn't be a heartbeat away." I haven't spoken to them about Drumpf, but I'm positive they voted for Drumpf and I'm equally certain they had the same unease about Drumpf that they had about Palin. The point is that these people, as uneasy as they were about Drumpf, could not make themselves vote for Hillary Clinton. The point, my friend, is that these people (Reds that voted for Obama in 2008) are ripe for the picking BUT in order to win, you need the half of the Democratic Party that voted for Bernie and will not simply vote for the Democratic candidate, no matter how Right Wing, for the sake of the Party. My warning this go 'round is simply this: Do not alienate them further. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,928 by rcareaga 7/17/17 12:06:40 PM 7/17/17 12:06:40 PM Reply	Sure you want to go there, son? You left an ample trail of “Trump might not be that bad” posts that kinda cloud up those crystal balls you’re so proud of. I stand by my original post in every particular. cordially,
Post #418,930 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 12:59:22 PM 7/17/17 12:59:22 PM Reply	Keep doing the same thing over and over. It'll change some time. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,929 by drook 7/17/17 12:07:46 PM 7/17/17 12:07:46 PM Reply	Speaking of people who were wrong last time It's pretty damned clear (and yes, count me among those who is surprised) that the 4 in 10 Americans who put Donnie in the White House are going to show up at the polls and vote for these knuckle-draggers again. I didn't think that was possible. Back in college I had a history prof who used to like to say, "If you want to discredit the Right, give them the floor." I confess I had too much faith in the American People. Despite my lifelong experience living among them, I still believed they were educable, if hit sufficiently in the head with a two-by-four. Drumpf looked to me to be the two-by-four which might awaken them. People here spent months telling you that you were wrong about all those things. And you were. And not only were you wrong about what they would do, you're wrong about why. It's not that they need to be educated, or that they need to be awakened. They know everything you want them to, and that's what they want. Trump says he will blow up the institutions and that's what they want. Trump says he will punish "the elites" and that's what they want. Trump says he will make life harder for immigrants and THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT! As long as people believe it's an education problem, they're going to keep fighting the wrong fight. -- Drew
Post #418,931 by mmoffitt 7/17/17 1:01:30 PM 7/17/17 1:01:30 PM Reply	He's declared war on them, though, and that's what they needed to learn. But apparently can't. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,945 by Another Scott 7/17/17 8:08:16 PM 7/17/17 8:08:16 PM Reply	I've got a Teabagger friend in the midwest, too. Have you asked you friends who voted for Obama in 2008 whether they voted for him in 2012? Were they "ripe for the picking" then? Somehow, I doubt it. Somehow all of these Hillary is So Horrible memes only appear when she runs for office. We know each others arguments backwards and forwards. ;-) There were too many weird things about the 2016 election to argue that Hillary lost because she was (somehow, in spite of getting more votes) rejected by the voters. But even if you're right, arguing that Berniewoodawon and beating up on the DNC and all the rest doesn't help defeat the Teabaggers and stop Donnie's destruction of the commonweal. Cheers, Scott.
Post #418,953 by mmoffitt 7/18/17 9:08:29 AM 7/18/17 9:08:29 AM Reply	No, they voted Romney in 2012. That's actually my point. It turns out the knuckle-draggers in these parts actually have a limit to their blind allegiance to the Republican Party. Palin was it in '08, but there wasn't a complete whack job (from their POV anyway - certainly not mine) on the Republican ticket in 2012. I'm saying that only Hillary Clinton could have lost in 2016 because the revulsion of Palin that caused them to switch sides in '08 would have been the revulsion of Trump that caused them to switch sides in '16 had virtually anyone but Hillary been the Democratic nominee. And yes, that includes Bernie, too! bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,956 by Another Scott 7/18/17 1:11:10 PM 7/18/17 1:15:24 PM Reply	And yet she beat Bernie AND she won the popular vote. Hmmm.... to continue... It was a close election for a lot of reasons. Close enough that 80,000 people - who didn't live in Indiana - changed the outcome. Your argument doesn't make much sense to me. I know lots of white men didn't like Hillary and would never vote for her. Lots of white women, also too. That doesn't mean that her campaign was doomed from the start or that the DNC is the Devil or all the other things that you seem to think are important. Comey was the ultimate reason why she lost - or, more accurately - why her popular vote margin was close enough for the Russians to flip the EC to Trump. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott. Edited by Another Scott July 18, 2017, 01:15:24 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #418,960 by mmoffitt 7/18/17 2:00:36 PM 7/18/17 2:00:36 PM Reply	This is a rerun. You're not going to convince me that Sanders would have performed worse than Clinton and I'm not going to convince you that Sanders could have actually won (the fact that he is today the most popular politician in the country notwithstanding). But I'd remind you that you said Clinton "could be competitive" in Indiana also, too. Indiana certainly wasn't decisive. But the Flyover Region was and the entire region is populated by folks not dissimilar from Hoosiers. I see stuff like this and it gives me great concern. It looks like the Democratic Party has already restarted its ever Rightward March to even new dizzying lengths. That's not going to win in 2018 or 2020. We've had essentially the same politics for 40 years. Drumpf is the end game, the terminus of the march entered into 40 years ago. If the Democrats are not prepared to completely reverse course, the nation as we know it won't survive. ... unless ... What I think now is that the country, our people and the world at large would benefit in the extreme if we got rid of the EC. An idea that likely has no chance, but it could save us - or at least, prolong our agony. My idea in 2015 and 2016 that "if only the flyover people could suffer the real consequences of what they've been asking for, they would never go down the Republican road again" was my biggest mistake. They are now, have always been and will always be entirely too ignorant to recognize even the most obvious of facts. They really should have no say whatsoever in how we are governed, let alone a disproportionate say. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,962 by drook 7/18/17 2:48:49 PM 7/18/17 2:48:49 PM Reply	Token reminder It's not that they're ignorant. That would imply that if you showed them the right information, in a way that they would believe you, they would agree with you. They won't. They understand the facts of what you're saying and disagree with your conclusions. -- Drew
Post #418,966 by pwhysall 7/18/17 4:34:03 PM 7/18/17 4:34:03 PM Reply	Show me one state... ...where an old white Jewish atheist socialist would have beaten Clinton. I honestly believe that the US would elect a gay woman before it'd elect an avowed atheist. Or a socialist. Or either. Or both.
Post #418,970 by rcareaga 7/18/17 9:18:30 PM 7/18/17 9:18:30 PM Reply	“Forget it, Pete. It’s mmoffittown.”
Post #418,982 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 8:19:48 AM 7/19/17 8:19:48 AM Reply	That is a toughy. Which state could the most popular politician in the entire country defeat one of the most unpopular politicians in the country? I mean, Sanders favorability is not even two percentage points higher than Hillary's unfavorability (Sanders 57% favorable, Clinton 55.3% unfavorable). That's a hopeless posit..., er, ... never mind. But don't let mere facts get in the way. This is Trump's America, we no longer have a need for facts. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,984 by Another Scott 7/19/17 8:32:26 AM 7/19/17 8:32:26 AM Reply	Hillary was (and maybe still is) the most popular woman in the country. Until she started running for President. Then the mud started flying (again). Polls like that don't mean anything when it comes to voting for President. Eichenwald from November. Berniewouldalost maybe in a blowout of biblical proportions. HTH. Cheers, Scott.
Post #418,985 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 8:42:52 AM 7/19/17 8:42:52 AM Reply	Keep repeating it. Eventually everyone will believe it. Hillary won the nomination by winning the states no Democrat had a chance for in the general (and, of course, those "special" Super Delegates). With this weak showing (nearly losing to "an old Socialist Guy" when she had the entire machinery of the DNC backing her), she still didn't go to Wisconsin. What an idiot. But, as Rand and to a lesser extent you hasten to point out, it's not her fault she lost the election. It's all because of those damned Berniecrats! We Lefties ruined her coronation and no one's ever going to forgive us for that. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,987 by Another Scott 7/19/17 8:50:42 AM 7/19/17 8:50:42 AM Reply	She lost because of Comey (mostly). She beat Bernie.
Post #418,990 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 9:02:05 AM 7/19/17 9:02:05 AM Reply	Five Comeys shouldn't have mattered! Her opponent was Trump for $DEITY's sake! bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,991 by Another Scott 7/19/17 9:24:18 AM 7/19/17 9:24:18 AM Reply	"Shouldn't" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there...
Post #418,993 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 9:47:16 AM 7/19/17 9:47:16 AM Reply	A better candidate would have survived Comey. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,994 by pwhysall 7/19/17 10:12:08 AM 7/19/17 10:12:08 AM Reply	Bernie wouldn't. You don't get to be as old as him and still in politics without a shitload of embarrassment just waiting to be used against you. Wasn't there a story about the RNC and their 500 page war book of "shit Bernie doesn't want mentioned"?
Post #418,995 by Another Scott 7/19/17 11:07:28 AM 7/19/17 11:07:28 AM Reply	See the Eichenwald link in my "Hillary was" link above.
Post #418,998 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 11:36:34 AM 7/19/17 11:36:34 AM Reply	Advertised with Trump's speech about all things Clinton that never happened. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #419,013 by boxley 7/19/17 6:40:24 PM 7/19/17 6:40:24 PM Reply	blame everyone but the crap candidate "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #418,986 by mmoffitt 7/19/17 8:45:25 AM 7/19/17 8:45:25 AM Reply	Also, too. He replied, “Well, Stein, but—” I interrupted him and said, “You’re lucky it’s illegal for me to punch you in the face.” Then, after telling him to have sex with himself—but with a much cruder term—I turned and walked away. Yeah, I bet that really made him change his mind and vote for Hillary. It is just crazy she lost the election. bcnu, Mikem It's mourning in America again.
Post #418,988 by Another Scott 7/19/17 8:52:15 AM 7/19/17 8:52:15 AM Reply	It's an opinion/news piece. He's a reporter, not an outreach guy for the Democrats.
Post #419,011 by boxley 7/19/17 6:25:33 PM 7/19/17 6:25:33 PM Reply	even now she polls lower than trump. "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #418,974 by boxley 7/18/17 10:39:28 PM 7/18/17 10:39:28 PM Reply	80k ineligable voters! best get all that state election info to the trump commision to fix that how many were non citizens? Or does the hysteria doesnt count when it is your hysteria? "Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" – Richard Feynman
Post #418,979 by Another Scott 7/19/17 3:06:23 AM 7/19/17 3:06:24 AM Reply	Re: 80k ineligable voters! best get all that state election info to the trump commision to fix that https://www.brennancenter.org/legal-work HTH. Cheers, Scott.

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