Post #39,943
5/26/02 2:24:01 AM
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Replace Win-MErde on a Dell w/ W2K to run 3-D Max ??
&^$#$ Windoze just won't go Away --- A friend thinks she must learn to use (Autodesk) 3-D Max and Combustion. She's no geek, so I dunno if she Can grok this stuff adequately, but she has done editing of streaming video, etc. so what do I know.. Her ~ 1 yo Dell [she now knows better] came with Win MErde. She says that a graphics guru laughed at trying to install the above on that POS (big surprise). In fact, she couldn't. Dunno what error messages; wasn't there (and I assume she had the *%^#$* dongle plugged in, etc. etc). [How Many folks still don't get: First pick the ap you MUST have. THEN get the rest of the stuff to suit it?] Now Autodesk (on the [link|http://www.3dmax.com/|http://www.3dmax.com/] website) provides only a very old and uninformative FAQ re W2K, saying \ufffd Operating System
\ufffd Windows 2000 (when supported - As of Sept 2000, it is still officially unsupported although many animators are using Win2k with great success.)
\ufffd Windows NT 4.0 with latest Service Pack "As of sept 2000" - {sheesh} - and this is supposed to be Autodesk !? Bloody twits. Anyway, as I may install W2K as the better choice over NT, given the surely decaying driver availability with NT? - I wondered if there is anything peculiar to a clean install of W2K Pro. (Haven't the Dell model # to hand, but it was a Pricey Model ~ a year ago, 256M; gotta peruse video card too, etc.) I did note that the Disneyland Demo CD for introducing users to this New Marvel-OS - supposes "IE 4 or later" and uses lots of Acti-Vex stuff etc. Likely will suggest that she keep her near-full 80GB HD as-is.. and do the graphics trial on a shiny new one. Forget 'backing up' & reloading.. I'll teach her to do the master / slave swap and copy over only essential data -later- if W2K runs the aps OK. Hate having all eggs in Any new M$-basket. Hey.. with HDs this cheap - Time is more valuable. Any gotchas come to mind re W2K installs or re 3D-Max? Thanx for any tips.. Ashton PS - am I right in presuming that GIMP/Linux doesn't do 3-D at all (whether or not there's any equiv. to above aps) ?
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Post #39,951
5/26/02 9:21:19 AM
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I'd approach it this way.
Hi Ashton,
I can't answer your specific questions, but thought I'd offer some comments on how I would approach the problem.
1. Check Dell's web site to see if NT4 drivers exist for her specific system.
2. Contact Autodesk and ask them what OS is recommended/supported for the software.
3. If Autodesk supports/recommends NT4, then she should use that if her Dell supports it. Up until a few months ago, you could still get NT4, e.g., from NewEgg. They don't have it now. PCConnection still has NT4 Server, but I haven't been able to find NT4 at any of the big stores. Insight claims that they can order NT4 for about $182. [link|http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2026705981|Ebay] has someone selling 4 OEM copies for $90 each (BuyItNow) with a junk hard drive (to satisfy MS's license). Many other copies are listed.
4. If she needs NT4 and her Dell doesn't support it, she should check Ebay and/or PC closeout vendors and get a machine that already has it installed. (It might be tought to find a used machine with NT as many vendors wipe the drives.) Microwarehouse lists a refurbished Compaq P3/933 for $499 that has the OS listed as "NT/00". Perhaps it has both installed (and you choose 1 on first bootup). The [link|http://www2.warehouse.com/product.asp?dept%5Fid=1736&cat=pc&pf%5Fid=RCP19454&blind=no|Web page] isn't terribly descriptive.
I suspect she'll get useful information from Autodesk if she gets them on the phone.
<rummage, rummage around Autodesk's site...>
Autodesk/Discreet 3ds max/Smoke seems to be the products you're talking about. The .PDF [link|http://www.discreet.com/products/3dsmax/|on this page] says Win2k is recommended, or Win98. Assuming her PC handles it, it looks like 2K is the way to go. NewEgg carries it (if you buy hardware with it).
Oh, and Scott made the IWeThey logo with the GIMP. I don't know if that's what you mean by 3D though. The GIMP is an image manipulaton program, not really a design package. It might be able to do some of what she needs, but it doesn't look like they're comparable packages. [link|http://www.gimp.org|[link|http://www.gimp.org|http://www.gimp.org]].
Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #40,010
5/27/02 12:10:26 AM
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Muchas gracias.
As luck would have it, went to a local 'show' Saturday - a friend found a sealed, Certificated-NT4 distro and CDs of Service Packs (maybe at least to 4, with 2? applied to original) IIRC there were 6? but 4 or 5 were the last ones that worked? Natch I'll have to check this all, if NT seems best route. He got it all for ~ $40 IIRC. (And will give to L. if that gets to be the plan)
Many thanks for the sleuthing on NT availability - makes the show price into a real windfall. Now whether or not it is also a prescience..
Read the GIMP material - seems to be at least a similar manipulation program to PhotoShop, with a bit fewer capabilities. Believe her 3-D plans need a bit more. Amazingly there is even a Win GIMP, but one has to dance around TIFF and UniSys patents.
Arrggghh - another detour into Beast systems, taking away momentum to get Linux running. Must tell self: this is fun! Yes it's Windoze but.. maybe this time it will.. just.. run. (and.. next month too.)
Regards,
Ashton
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Post #39,975
5/26/02 2:31:48 PM
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Don't know about 2K, but XP has been good
One of my clients bought a handful of Dell refurbs (don't know exactly what model at the moment (I'm behind in my paperwork), but 4400 comes to mind). Two came with Me, two with XP Home and one with XP Pro. The Me ones slowed to an unusable crawl within 2 weeks, and the XP Home ones wouldn't work on the network, so they're all loaded off that XP Pro CD (no registration required from the Dell CD). Installation was totally smooth.
A "walk in" client brought a Dell he said was about one year old because Me had become to slow to use and had compatibility problems - and there were viruses. He brought me an XP Home upgrade. It went on smooth as well, though I think I did have to get a driver for one component (won't know for sure until I unbury the paperwork).
Sheesh! the W32/Klez.H Worm nightmares have left my paperwork behinder than it already was.
Speaking of The Klez, I think nearly every Windows PC in the world now has it now. The only uninfected one I've found in the last two weeks hadn't been used for months. "Dude, you've go the Klez"
Found dozens of Klez infected files on my work computer, but it doesn't seem to run well under OS/2.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #39,993
5/26/02 9:04:30 PM
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XP Pro, seconded
My brother is able to run his gaming apps through it, Everquest (Evercrack?) runs great for a long time.
I imagine that compatability tab in XP can be used to fool Autodesk into thinking it is running on NT 4.0 or W2K.
I am free now, to choose my own destiny.
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Post #40,009
5/26/02 11:46:58 PM
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Thanks for comments, all.
I think we'll have to have the little chat about how many? 80 GB drives she plans to fill, backups, 256-M video cards and such. Since the planning here is already bass-ackwards.. I'll find out if I've learned anything from the painful reports over the years about consequences of,
not planning ahead|
Possibilities of Dell info noted, re NT and other drivers. I'd disqualify self (esp. re advanced graphics choices) except that she's trying to do some non-profit things re the status of animal treatment by 'shelters' and govt. agencies in US, of a practical sort. So I'll manage what I can and at least vet any recommendations made by the graphics/video gurus.
Heh.. prolly first job for my Linux project box will be - running W2K! and trying these humongous aps solo. Will remain prejudiced against XP 'less'n there's no way around it - and I can find my links on nuking all the Call-Home featurez.
(An NT distro with Certificate is also available + a passel of Service Packs on CD - if it comes to that. It was dirt cheap at a local 'show'.) Hmm, maybe her work box Should be entirely off the net too = surely the best anti-virus of all.
It used to be so simple to plug together a box, fdisk and Go. Now.. the BTUs/hr. of just the cockamamie video card! then memory (saw coolers for that too!) VS overall fan-noise level, gets into the days of audio consulting + vibration absorption. Next: hydraulics - water- or freon-cool All the small stoves in there (?)
Ashton
Thank the GRR for physics! at least all this stuff can be grokked..
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Post #40,011
5/27/02 12:11:23 AM
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Nah . . 2 steps to go yet . .
. . solid copper heatsinks, then solid silver heatsinks then liquid cool - and we need to transition from axial to squirel cage on those blowers too.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #40,023
5/27/02 7:17:41 AM
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Solution! for the noise and the heat -
Ya buys an old refrig, put in vented closet or on back porch.. maybe use freezer compartment for a heat exchanger for the naughtier bits, via Tygon tubing. Use temp-controlled fans to moderate airflow as required. Want Reeel Quiet: use a Servel gas refrig.
Optional: a '53 Buick Roadmaster set of dash lights modified to indicate temp at various points.
Save big bux VS special cases with tar and (usually too big) squirrel cage stuff..
\ufffd 2002 Kewl & Kwiet Korner LLC
Like to practice your violin while compiling that kernel?
Choose K-K-K for a serene environment!
Bonus: 'Thermal mass' consists of a beer keg - for precise temp moderation and for your comfort & convenience.
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Post #40,037
5/27/02 10:05:00 AM
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Condensation 'll rot your traces.
Even a "frost free" fridge isn't frost free enough. A weekly delivery of liquid nitrogen is what you really need. Pipe that stuff in through the heat sinks. Check with your homeowners association to see if that insulated silo in your back yard is permitted.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #40,040
5/27/02 10:55:31 AM
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Bah - just buy it ready-built, with the fridge built-in:
[link|http://www.vapochill.com/|[link|http://www.vapochill.com/|http://www.vapochill.com/]][*].
Or [link|http://www.kryotech.com/|[link|http://www.kryotech.com/|http://www.kryotech.com/]].
[*]: Or, alternatively, [link|http://www.asetek.dk/|[link|http://www.asetek.dk/|http://www.asetek.dk/]] -- don't you have a soft spot for .dk adresses anyway, Ash? :-)
Christian R. Conrad
Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #40,096
5/27/02 6:41:12 PM
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How dare they steal my idea.. in advance!
Yabut you just don't unnerstand Murican marketing:
See.. there are millions of reefers out there. Many are long overdue for [this time Really] an upgrade to vastly more efficient ones; efficiency which translates into a payback of purchase cost + interest - in 3-4 years. (In my case a few years ago - broke even in about 2.5 yrs. That Amana was a Dog..) And: costs a body ~$35 (typ) to haul one away / reclaim the Freon before it joins the megatons of other crap we throw away daily.
Tell 'em they can use that thing - and get quiet as a bonus..
('Course while its running it's Still an energy hog and later on.. you have to sell them the dehumidifier anti-condensation module, etc.) But they gets to Do It Theyself with simple instructions!
See - Truth in Advertising IS our motto - it's just not honored, 'cept in those aberrant cases.
Yeah.. nice links. Love the mini-reefer one. Pity that, while the component could be rather cheap if mass produced: this is probably one Expensive box. They also mentioned 'quiet'. I note they also have to add heaters against condensation.
Still, if not going for -40 C temps, and in normal to lo-humidity areas: why not a simple circ water (OK deionized) system, with cooling utilizing nominal fan airflow - over usual evaporative cooler ("Swamp Coolers" as used here a lot - esp. in 'mobile homes').
Just stick-on an exchanger over CPU, video, memory (!?), with diff. sized tubes off a parallel manifold, to fine tune the BTU/hour needs. Quiet small pump. Large fan (slo = quieter) for the convection cooling (and to run swamp cooler). No expensive pieces at all, save maybe the exchangers - as these have to physically mount, somewhat neatly. Those must already be available at mass-produced rates.
The Israelis made a tiny-box swamp cooler (bought one a few yrs. ago). It won't "cool a small room" particularly - but it blows adequately cool air on your face / chest! Very nicely engineered and built. (This alone wouldn't do, of course - humidity on output might be under 90% inside a \ufffd-box, but.. who wants to test those "rated RH" numbers even at 12 V max?)
Guess I'd rather give a Dk place a boost over most others, as you say.
(Been to Tivoli yet?) Test: what mean? when you hear somebody hawking, outside a tent:
Loppe.. loppe.. loppe.. loppe..!
:-\ufffd
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Post #40,169
5/28/02 11:26:08 AM
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The DIY approach:
From [link|http://www.overclockers.com/|[link|http://www.overclockers.com/|http://www.overclockers.com/]]: - Bong cooler #1: [link|http://www.overclockers.com/tips459/|"From Celeron 400 to Bong-Cooled Duron @ 1024 MHz"]
- Bong cooler #2: [link|http://www.overclockers.com/tips883/|"My Cooling Rig"]
- Keep that sucker topped up: [link|http://www.overclockers.com/tips667/|"Peace of Mind for Bong Owners"]
- Stop smoking pot, do something REALLY cool instead: [link|http://www.overclockers.com/tips798/|"Extreme Water-Cooling Using Refrigeration"]
- No, stop making a ruckus and shut up in stead: [link|http://www.overclockers.com/tips944/|"Want a Silent PC? RADBOX!"]
- And, finally, their overall [link|http://www.overclockers.com/topiclist/index31.asp#WATER COOLING|"WATER COOLING" Do-It-Yourself tips list].
But, yeah, I've been thinking for a while on a combination of the "Extreme Water-Cooling" guy's and the "RADBOX!" guys' approaches: The box you have at a distance is not just a simple cooler, but an evaporative-refrigeration rig; you pipe supercooled (i.e, just above freezing -- ~+4 C? -- in order to avoid condensation problems) water (or perhaps better yet, some form of alcohol; isopropanol is the usual suspect, I think) in to your computer where you work. Hey, why not put the power supply in that box, too, and pipe in the low-voltage stuff your box needs to run, in stead of 240 (or 120, as the case may be) heat-generating volts, while you're at it? With this approach, you can use a *big* old fridge, and it doesn't necessarily have to be one of those weird but oh-so-silent gas-burning coolth-through-heat ones, either. With a big fridge, you can get *lots* of cooling fluid, so you can cool your chipset and graphics adapter and hard drive, and, hey, why not your memory too -- so you ought to be able to eliminate pretty much ALL those pesky little fans. (If not, then dammit, pipe in (cooled!) air from the same box, too! :-) BTW, that's not the only amateur watercooling site out there -- it's a whole sub-culture. It intersects pretty closely with that of the overclockers (judging from the name, this site probably more properly belongs in that camp), and more loosely with that of the "Case Modders" in general -- if you want more links, let me know and I'll rummage around a bit for ya! Lastly: "Flea Circus", perhaps? (At least in Swedish, 'loppa' means 'flea'; and 'loppe' is close enough, at least for Scandinavian inter-government work... :-) Christian R. Conrad
Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #40,489
5/30/02 7:04:37 AM
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Sub-culture indeed!
(And yup on the fleas)
Makes brain hurt. I can see all the possible approaches, then cost/benefit rears ugly head. What stops me from experimenting much is - while I have enough test equipment around, not a passel of accurate temp monitors (which I think is only sane way to vet some mod). Another time-sink :(
Wouldn't have taken much for mfgs. to mount most fans w/ elastomers by now - lots of the sound energy is screwed directly to the case! I'll play a bit with my junk-box of Si-rubber pieces and such. Hmmm - mount with 4 dabs of RTV (room-temp vulcanizing stuff) Fans are light.
Thanks for the intro to the Quiet Kewl Ones..
Ashton
(Still, for an ex-Citr\ufffden type - all that hydraulics ... )
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Post #40,170
5/28/02 11:28:00 AM
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BTW: Shouldn't this thread be moved, now...
...to the "Water Cooler" forum? :-)
Christian R. Conrad
Of course, who am I to point fingers? I'm in the "Information Technology" business, prima facia evidence that there's bats in the bell tower. -- [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=27764|Andrew Grygus]
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Post #46,319
7/21/02 10:40:18 PM
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Fools Rush In - a continuing saga of IT Wonderfulness
(More prose than techno-revelation so, just skip if wishing for nice clean brevity with fixes)
Fortunately I have a friend who.. Likes.. playing with OSs, digging up the interminable fixes, ferreting out all the Crap left enabled from Billytown, etc. He's Nutz but I am glad that there are nutty people who enjoy Purgatory. And Disneyland. Or Both.
It seems that the entire theme of W2K is.. the Billy idea of networking via *New* millions of nested menus with catchy New TLAs to not-describe the New arbitrary 'categories' as well as the New 'service-TLAs': all of which appear to me to be heavily infested with the wet-Billy dream of:
More than 12 people in the universe actually trying to use AD to run a bizness (??) Maybe it's less of a jolt for those who already had to immerse and obsess over NT (I wouldn't know this).
SO far.. in trying to disable a plethora of Services totally irrelevant to our simple aims, D. managed to find that many of these are 'dependent upon' YAN TLA.. 'RPG' (IIRC). Why not go to the root of the proliferation of excreta? Hmmm?
Stopping That - produced a variety of deadness without actual rigor-mortis.. not unlike the response of W to an unrehearsed Press Question [?] and which I can be merely grateful for having missed observing. But..
Thanks to his turning up a couple sites written in actual English (this-all being merely a test thus far: ie see how it flies, what breaks it; whether a Newbie ever could -'manage' it, etc.) ... he was able to change a byte in the Reg and get that ol RPG-thingie back to keeping all the pie plates in the air.!.
The Windoze REGISTRY
-*-
{{\\______/}}
___\\____/
____\\__/
_____\\/____
//////////////
_*_ = a fly about to land
This I deem a Good omen. That it can be mangled AND maybe-fixed w/o RRR.. why it's Mind-boggling!! Shall report back how Newbies on Crack eventuates:
Will the dashing Ms. L. ever get to edit streaming video [??]
with anOther Corp-Giant wet-Dream from Autodesk (something about Graphics) [??]
For maybe a whole week w/o troubles [???]
OR:
Will we all wash hands, Zap her constipated unpolishable-turd Win-MErde.. for W-98 semi-dejunked instead?
Will we have to flash a #&*% Dell BIOS?
Get new video drivers?
Call her Guru at ILM for TLC SAP?
Drive to Redmond with a semi of ammonium nitrate ?
Isn't this Exciting ?!
Ashton
just tryin to Look on the Bright Side of Wife.
Maybe W2K really is the Best of the Crappiest!?
Microsoft is a true reflection of Bill Gates' personality - the sleaziest, most unethical, ugliest little rat's ass the world has seen unto this time. -- Andrew Grygus, [currently In Use\ufffd CRC-wise]
"Give me a fast ship, for I intend to go into harm's way."
\ufffdJohn Paul Jones
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