need suggestons for a problematic 17yo

Post #39,509 by boxley 5/22/02 12:18:25 PM Reply	need suggestons for a problematic 17yo If my 17.5 yo stepdaughter was not related and a man I would hospitalise them and they wouldnt walk normally ever again. Non stop drug and alchol abuse,bulemia, stole my wifes wallet yesturday, took out all the cash and gave the wallet back to my middle son and said the money was her child support. Trashed my house, getting calls from people she has visited stating that she is lifting cash and valuables. Stole her co-workers credit cards and offering drugs to my older boys, 13 and 10. She has a warrant out on her but my wife said the judge wasnt impressed and would give her probation and send her to my house. She has refused any and all treatment and disappears the minute you check her into rehab. Now I would like any suggestions that dont involve me going to jail to0 get this kid out of my house/life. No other family members of both sides will touch her and most have a restraining order. I have thought of selling her to a pimp, but might hurt my wifes feelings. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,514 by Silverlock 5/22/02 12:25:35 PM Reply	First, change all your locks. Then, have her arrested when she breaks in. "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does NOT mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
Post #39,521 by boxley 5/22/02 12:42:30 PM Reply	Florida law gets in the way She doesnt have a key, I cannot have her arrested for tresspass as she is a minor and her mother lives there. She is currently facing the following charges possession of narcotics and paraphanalia felony battery on a police officer credit card theft theft by deception (hot checks) theft (her mothers money and at least 2 other people) B&E neighbors garage and stole a new bike this will result in the judge putting her on probation and sending her back to live with us. I dont have a choice. nder Florida law if she goes to Jail I get to pay $20 to $60 dollars a day until she is 18 for every day in jail, thanx, Bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,522 by Silverlock 5/22/02 12:44:04 PM Reply	Can you disown her? "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does NOT mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
Post #39,524 by boxley 5/22/02 12:52:01 PM Reply	gonna find out if we can divorce her TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,528 by boxley 5/22/02 1:40:11 PM Reply	looks like the only statute is [link\|http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0743/SEC015.HTM&Title=->2001->Ch0743->Section%20015\|link] but the paragraph marked 6 is the showstopper. It must be in the childs best interest not the victims. Maybe try it anyway, Thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,563 by Silverlock 5/22/02 10:10:07 PM Reply	Get a safe. Keep your valuables in it at all times. Put a lock on the fridge. Put locks on all the closets. You know the drill, consider yourself living in enemy territory and take all the safeguards that it implies. From your description, the girl is out of control. There is nothing you can do in the short term to affect that. Unless you are willing to declare her mentally incompetent. That is a hell of a big step. If you want to go that far, get a lawywer first. It'll cost a bit, but how much would/could you lose due to her? I am, of course, assuming you have tried talking to her and her mother has tried the same. I know full well how little influence a parent can have on a 'wildchild' adolescent(so-called adult). One thing to try is to go to her school and see if she has any teachers she respects. If so, recruit them! You may have some luck in talking to her friends also, this is a small chance, but worth exploring, Try laying it out on the table. "You are a _______ (whatever seems effective) and we can't live with that anymore. You are not allowed in this house, you are not allowed to phone this house, you are not allowed to speak to any of us. Go away." (And then take a very trusting move and turn your back on her). You could also, of course, beat the holy living hell out of the current boyfriend (I assume there is a slimebag boyfriend involved somwwhere). Satisfying as this may be, I advise against it. "Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does NOT mean to stand by the President or any other public official save exactly to the degree in which he himself stands by the country. It is patriotic to support him insofar as he efficiently serves the country. It is unpatriotic not to oppose him to the exact extent that by inefficiency or otherwise he fails in his duty to stand by the country." ~ Theodore Roosevelt
Post #39,589 by boxley 5/23/02 7:29:14 AM Reply	Which boyfriend? She is sleeping with 6 that I know of as well as 2 girls, she has only been here for 2 months, she stayed with us last year with fewer problems but the guy she was with before cant stand her now. I would declare her mentally incompetent but the "system" here would simply go "OK she's incompetent so take care of her" The table was layed, she didnt appreciate being called a skank in front of everybody so had to explain real slow that a skank is a thieving ho that only thinks about her own gratification. By admision and evidence, she acts like a ho and she is a thief so the name sticks. Then told her that she needs to forget where we live and I would prefer if she disappeared and stayed that way as she has burned the last bridge to any family members of hers. She hasnt been back still stealing my wifes wallet so am hoping it stays that way. My wife is hurting over this but is toughing it out. Putting the house up for sale this weekend, hope it sells fast so I can move before the courts and the kid find out where Im going. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,805 by Another Scott 5/24/02 10:47:46 AM Reply	Are any of them over 18? Since she's a minor and they're helping corrupt her, perhaps they could be pressured into cutting off contact with her or face charges. She's not doing this all on her own. There must be someone in her cadre that's over 18 that could be pressured. It's a very bad situation for you, and I feel for you and your family. But realistically, unless you can find FL law that clarifies things better, I think Don's suggestion of locking up everything you can is probably the best you can do until she's 18. :-( Best of luck. Cheers, Scott.
Post #39,954 by boxley 5/26/02 9:46:09 AM Reply	A 17yo is fair game except if a person over 18 is in a position of authority, guardian, teacher etc. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,966 by Another Scott 5/26/02 10:46:19 AM Reply	Not so sure. Depends on the age gap. If she's messing around with someone 24+ then the older person is breaking Florida law: [link\|http://www.vaw.umn.edu/FinalDocuments/stateleg.asp\|Here]: The survey findings included the following amendments to existing statutory rape laws. The States enacted these amendments between January 1995 and January 1997: [...] * Targeting much older defendants. Two States increased the possible sentence when the defendant is significantly older than the minor. Delaware increased the possible sentence when the defendant is 10 or more years older than a minor under 16, and Georgia increased the sentence to a mandatory 10 years when the defendant is 21 years old or older. Florida rewrote one of its laws so that persons 24 or older are prohibited from having sex with 16- and 17-year-olds. [...] Emphasis added. I know it's grasping at straws. :-( Best of luck! Cheers, Scott.
Post #40,158 by boxley 5/28/02 9:45:18 AM Reply	Nope her crew is 16-21 TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,515 by mmoffitt 5/22/02 12:28:24 PM Reply	Sorry to hear that. Had a similar, but not as bad, experience w/my wife's neice from Texas a couple years back. After she took my wife's engagement ring to high school, lied about it, and damned near lost it one day (not to mention lying, stealing from my daughters, skipping school, etc.) we had the advantage of having the option of shipping her back to her worthless mother in Texas. Once she's 18, you can have her arrested for trespassing, no? Or have her declared an emancipated minor and do it now. Not pretending to have anything useful for you, Mikem
Post #39,517 by jbrabeck 5/22/02 12:30:56 PM Reply	Ouch! County Family Services? Have police bust her on drug charges... or Have her arrested on theft charges... refuse to accept her into the house if they try to offer probation? Search her room for any drugs, make it obvious that you've done so (leave it a mess). Do it again tomorrow. And the next day, until she decides to change or move out... If she is 17.5, you have only 6 months before all charges become "permanent, adult" charges. I feel for you. I also have a 17.5 yo stepdaughter, and a 15 yo and a 13yo plus my own 15 and 13 yo. Good luck. [link\|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com\|Joe]
Post #39,540 by Ashton 5/22/02 5:33:54 PM Reply	Depends a lot on whether Fla's social services are as fucked as their election ones. I have some experience with "Huckleberry House" in SF, some years back. Do a Google on just that. It might be illuminating; at least give you some basis for evaluating whatever is available to you. Since I knew one of their counselors, I got a mini-education on the Way things Worked, where intelligence fit in, discretion etc. All in all - they produced good results. I once gave 'shelter' briefly to an in-betweener: by then parentless. While she wasn't a klepto - let's just say that she had other 'issues'. I learned that I din't know shit about the psych. of many of these kids -- but that: Some Did know a lot. All of which doesn't help you much - except for me to say that (IMhO) - Yes, Virginia there Are Santa Clauses, people whose motivation is not $$, whose plans, methods are not airy-fairy -- and who know more than me & thee about (often enough) getting the Attention of kids who are the - yes Victims as well as whatever Else - of the generally inane and chaotic culture we have unleashed upon the cheeldrun, after doing it to ourselves. Hell, they could even work with some ones who were budding miniature Billys and Ballys, it seemed. (No reflection upon you & yours either: as all know -- it's Peer pressure which Rulez.) Just listen to the -bitch- lyrics and notice the 13 yo 'simulated-sex' dance ref'd in a post here recently. You know all this stuff.. My suggestion is, that you try to rummage among your local acquaintances for someone personally familiar with whatever are the possibilities across agencies -- before 'formally' just using the yellow pages for an entree. You may find something as advanced as Huckleberry -- if you're bloody fortunate. But you'd need some informed inside opinion to learn how to work Your system, get past certain BS filters that are always frustrating. ie set radar to find Intelligence. It would be a mistake to suppose that everyone doing this kind of work is doing so because - they can't learn C or how to sell fodder to sheep. Good Luck, Ashton
Post #39,590 by boxley 5/23/02 7:32:41 AM Reply	I have met some decent folks years ago used to do cult deprogramming at one time. Get the protein intake up, sober them up and jolt the thought processes. People in the mental health field are there for many reasons and there are a few who have a dedicated clue. I will try this huckleberry house google. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,607 by Ashton 5/23/02 10:14:22 AM Reply	With that experience - You're ahead - not a lot of difference among drug- religion- peer- brainwashing. Habit handles the ongoing behaviour, once the er engrams get the old neurons lined-up in lock-step. (Your experience may be recyclable BTW, even more valuable in Your Own Field: creating a 12-step for those wearing Suits and now terminally addicted to Bestial-upgrading: as a malevolent money sump - which results in treating employees as commodities.) This may be a more insidious addiction than any of the above ;-) Hey..! I could contribute to the slogans for your new vocation (?) (though these won't help the 17 yo so much as a clue-by-4 administered to the pineal gland.) Don't let SAP sap your brains... You wouldn't eat sh*t preloaded on your plate - why eat Win MErde? (Even) DOS programs still work today; how come ya need new Windoze about every other year? It's 11 pm. Where is Your Data being held hostage tonight? Windoze? .nyet! Learn it. Follow it. Declare independence. Ever heard of a computer not being rebooted for 5 years? We've got it! You can get it. That place.. "Where you wanted to go today" - did you ever get there? Etc. (one has to start with simple jingles when facing institutionalized dumbth, y'know) Luck with the tyke (just an older tyke), Ashton
Post #39,615 by boxley 5/23/02 10:48:25 AM Reply	All your data all the time is my slogan TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,553 by orion 5/22/02 8:15:56 PM Reply	Yeeouch! Who has parental rights? Put her up for adoption or in an orpahage or something, see if they will deal with her. Or maybe, like for bad boys, put her in a military academy. Either she will shape up, or end up running the place. :) Either way they will teach her discipline and responsibility. That or put her on probation, and I'll bet she does something stupid again and the judge will get tired of having to look at her in court and put her in a home or something until she turns 18. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #39,554 by a6l6e6x 5/22/02 8:16:42 PM Reply	Re: suggestons for a problematic 17yo Well, here's a [link\|http://www.focusas.com/Resources.html\|LINK] to a lot of links that may (or not) be of value. Without question, I suggest trying to get help from professionals, starting with a county Social Services agency. You cannot consider just trying to get by the next few months and then cut off all contact. This is your wife's child and you have to do whatever it takes to get your step-daughter through this very difficult time. "For better or worse...", remember? Unfortunately, none of us are trained to deal with even the typical transformation of a child to an adult and you obviously have a case much more serious than that. I have parented 3 children into productive adulthood and I more attribute that to luck than to any skill. Alex "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Post #39,593 by boxley 5/23/02 7:41:41 AM Reply	Well all of the things mentioned have been tried Phychiatry, mental hospitals, treatment centers,councillors. This is a case of let it go and she will either live or not. My wife is saddened but Public incarceration is the only thing that has not been tried. Sociopaths are hard to treat and can be dangerous.If the kid shows up cool and collected in the future she would be welcomed. thanks for the input, Bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,561 by ben_tilly 5/22/02 9:43:24 PM Reply	Just 6 months left? Give her a round-trip ticket to another country, and point out that you can get good money by selling the return ticket. Then move, change your number, and don't leave a forwarding address. Cheers, Ben "... I couldn't see how anyone could be educated by this self-propagating system in which people pass exams, teach others to pass exams, but nobody knows anything." --Richard Feynman
Post #39,591 by boxley 5/23/02 7:37:06 AM Reply	I want to do that She doesnt want to leave her friends. If I point out that she might savor freedom a little longer if she was on the otherside of the continental divide it might work. Vegas or NYC would swallow her and it would give me time to move and not leave a trail. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #39,609 by Ashton 5/23/02 10:31:09 AM Reply	Amsterdam, then. Possibly Copenhagen, though I have no current info on how it goes there. The Dutch have tried being civilized, even to ungrateful strung-out wretches who figure that the world must adapt to their idiosyncrasies. It ain't perfect (for the idiosyncratic); and they may be tiring of the social experiment. You can get arrested, but you won't be beaten or installed in a Corporate-run prison - as is more and more apt to be the case in the US (CA now spending more for new Profit-making prisons than schools.) English is spoken by (enough people) there and, she'll find kindred spirits - whom she can eventually feel superior to, as she snaps out of her solipsism: she will, if there's basically an OK brain underneath all those layers of peer BS. She would find kids her age who have paid a bit more attention and have been educated quite better than her US peers, along the way. She may even come to like this change - and actually want to stay somewhere in Euro (?) after a return to sentient behavior. ?? Ashton
Post #39,613 by boxley 5/23/02 10:46:46 AM Reply	trouble with amsterdam Visa procurement, without a valid dest and cash etc for a long visit the visa would be impossible in todays climate. Gotta be US and far enough away. Phoenix would be good as they have the Indian Health Service nearby when her Insurance runs out. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #40,979 by wharris2 6/3/02 2:26:21 PM Reply	Unfortunately, the truism remains If they don't want to change, they won't. I guess that's part of the philosophy of reprogramming - you instill a desire to change. Alas, you can get perilously close to the line between reprogramming and brainwashing - though I think I'd call it reprogrmmming for serious cases such as your stepdaughter. Famous last RPG quotes: "I'll just shoot this fireball down the dungeon passageway..."
Post #47,479 by boxley 7/30/02 12:55:20 PM 7/31/02 8:41:57 AM Reply	resolution The kid was picked up in Minnesota and shipped back. Judge didnt appreciate her skipping on a court date. In Slam until 18yo. Treatment available [link\|http://www.djj.state.fl.us/rescorrfacilities/wcfacilities/23%20Kingsley%20Center.pdf\|12 step based] now I am just waiting for the bill. In florida even if the state locks your kid up you still get to pay. thanx, bill ."Once, in the wilds of Afghanistan, I had to subsist on food and water for several weeks." W.C. Fields Edited by boxley July 31, 2002, 08:41:57 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #47,492 by wharris2 7/30/02 2:19:40 PM Reply	Good luck The lawyers would mostly rather be what they are than get out of the way even if the cost was Hammerfall. - Jerry Pournelle
Post #47,528 by a6l6e6x 7/30/02 7:48:10 PM Reply	Let's hope that will help! OT: You need minor edit on the link - delete trailing double-quote mark ("). I'm sorry your having so much pain and agravation with this kid. One always wonders about state programs and the kind of staff they have. Going by the stuff in the press regarding foster care management in Florida, it's hard to expect a lot. Nonetheless, you'll have some peace in the house. Alex "Television: chewing gum for the eyes." -- Frank Lloyd Wright
Post #47,573 by boxley 7/31/02 8:45:49 AM Reply	Different department Since a few years ago when the state got tough on youthful offenders they have spent some time on it. The program is based on teaching life skills and addiction aversion. Of course how much the kid takes in is entirely up to her. thanx, bill ."Once, in the wilds of Afghanistan, I had to subsist on food and water for several weeks." W.C. Fields

Welcome to IWETHEY!