My heart? Really?

Post #392,808 by mmoffitt 8/5/14 9:58:58 AM 8/5/14 10:04:13 AM Reply	My heart? Really? Here's my most recent post on the topic: I don't care. http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/392665/ And someone else's lead post: http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/392494/ And when it comes to the "appropriate time" to discuss things other than the big issue, I think it's pretty clear that in an environment where the unthinkable (a shooting war between US/NATO and Russia is not outside the realm of possibility) hell, yes, we better solve that first. Before Justin Bieber's newest dating fiasco, or same-sex marriage or legalization of marijuana use. As for legalization being "the biggest issue", clearly, at least one person thinks so. Unless you don't think "the biggest issue" in 1968 was the Viet Nam War. Edited by mmoffitt Aug. 5, 2014, 10:02:11 AM EDT Edited by mmoffitt Aug. 5, 2014, 10:04:06 AM EDT My heart? Really? Here's my most recent post on the topic: I don't care. http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/392665/ And someone else's lead post: http://forum.iwethey.org/forum/post/392494/ And when it comes to the "appropriate time" to discuss things other than the big issue, I think it's pretty clear that in an environment where the unthinkable (a shooting war between US/NATO and Russia is not outside the realm of possibility) hell, yes, we better solve that first. Before Justin Bieber's newest dating fiasco, or same-sex marriage or legalization of marijuana use. Edited by mmoffitt Aug. 5, 2014, 10:04:13 AM EDT Expand All History \| Collapse All History
Post #392,809 by drook 8/5/14 10:14:23 AM Reply	No. That's the coward's way out Own up to your opinions. You don't get to argue your position then tell your opponent that it's really not important so they're being unreasonable to argue theirs. In this forum, the only measure of caring is what you spend your time writing about. If you really don't care, then don't write about it. You can make that decision for yourself, not for anyone else. -- Drew
Post #392,810 by mmoffitt 8/5/14 10:29:44 AM Reply	What am I failing to live up to? I don't care if pot is legalized. By God, I don't. I was adamantly opposed for a lot of years, but as I've said explicitly, I DO NOT CARE ANYMORE. What I do care about, and have ALWAYS cared about is how easily the media can get everyone to take their eye off the ball. To me, that's what's going on here. "Don't look at what's happening over there, you've never been there, you don't know anyone from there and besides, they're Rooskies who we've always hated. Hey! Look here instead! We're gonna legalize pot! Isn't that great!" We are pushing Putin into a corner and people are dying and the stakes couldn't be higher. I am as mystified as Cohen on how anyone could possibly think about anything else. I'm sorry I brought the pot thing up. My point in doing so was to point out the idiocy of giving a tinker's damn one way or the other in the current environment and more importantly, to directly refute an accusation made against me and my character. You don't like that I have supporting links? Tango Sierra.
Post #392,812 by pwhysall 8/5/14 10:48:22 AM Reply	The stakes could be WAY higher. It's a shitty little internal war between Russia, Ukraine and the partisans. This sucks mightily for the people living there, but lots of things suck mightily for lots of people all over the planet, so whatever. "Higher stakes" would be nukes pointed at my house as a result of this. I'll bet copious amounts of beer that, for us here in The West, this whole situation never goes beyond the strongly-worded email stage. There is certainly no chance of EU/NATO/US boots on the ground or even wings over Ukraine.
Post #392,818 by mmoffitt 8/5/14 12:14:02 PM Reply	Oh, I think the retargetting is a given. And I think that's the best outcome we can hope for. With our help, you guys in Europe have pushed NATO all the way to Russia's border. How do you think the US would react if a modern Warsaw Pact was spread across the Canadian and Mexican borders?
Post #392,820 by pwhysall 8/5/14 12:45:51 PM Reply	Why do you think any of this? There's no reason to. Ukraine isn't a member of the EU, nor of NATO. Russia is a paper tiger these days; it's poor, it's stupid, it's unhealthy, its military is a shadow of its former self, and it's still dining out on tales of when it was a superpower. Regional conflict is regional.
Post #392,825 by mmoffitt 8/5/14 1:43:54 PM Reply	Couple things. Ukraine isn't a member of the EU, nor of NATO. Not now. But you can't tell me we haven't been pushing that - and hard. Forbes reported at the time on the “stark difference” between the Russian and Western views “not over the advisability of Ukraine’s integration with the EU but over its likely impact.” The Forbes piece explained that the West knew the pitfalls, and Mark Adomanis’s predictions seem to be coming true. Add in the language that required Ukraine ‘to abide by Europe’s security and military policies’, and as Cohen reasonably decodes it: ‘bring Ukraine into NATO through the back door’. http://my.firedoglake.com/wendydavis/2014/06/17/updates-on-the-gruesome-news-from-ukraine-and-the-underlying-geopolitics/ Russia is a paper tiger these days; it's poor, it's stupid, it's unhealthy, its military is a shadow of its former self, and it's still dining out on tales of when it was a superpower. And it still has nuclear weapons and your heating fuel. If I accept your description of a Russia struggling with its self-concept at face value, doesn't that make it more likely that they will pound their chest with the only appendage they have left to pound with (i.e. nuclear arms)? When weighing Russia's poverty, you might want to consider the 30 year oil deal it just signed with China. That looks pretty healthy to me. But then, I live in the world's leading debtor nation. I'm hoping this resolves itself peacefully, but I don't think that a path to a peaceful resolution is clear at present. We've got the non-declared-but-clearly-running leading Democratic candidate and former Secretary of State calling Putin "Hitler" for chrissakes. (Aside: I agree with Cohen on this point, too, that her doing that should be an automatic disqualification). Personally, if no diplomatic solution is reached and we force Russia to lose the Ukraine, I cannot see how their remaining nukes are not aimed at their aggressors.
Post #392,834 by pwhysall 8/5/14 4:08:31 PM Reply	Nuclear exchange over Ukraine? That's just ridiculous.
Post #392,852 by mmoffitt 8/6/14 9:07:00 AM Reply	No, not exchange, retargetting. Just like in the first Cold War.
Post #392,813 by folkert 8/5/14 10:48:41 AM Reply	'MURICA! EFF-YEAH! SHINY THING OVER HERE! nevermind that blowing up thing over here... BENGHAZI! ACORN! -- greg@gregfolkert.net "No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible." --Stanislaw Jerzy Lec

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