Why do you think any of this?

Ukraine isn't a member of the EU, nor of NATO.

Not now. But you can't tell me we haven't been pushing that - and hard.

Forbes reported at the time on the “stark difference” between the Russian and Western views “not over the advisability of Ukraine’s integration with the EU but over its likely impact.” The Forbes piece explained that the West knew the pitfalls, and Mark Adomanis’s predictions seem to be coming true. Add in the language that required Ukraine ‘to abide by Europe’s security and military policies’, and as Cohen reasonably decodes it: ‘bring Ukraine into NATO through the back door’.

http://my.firedoglake.com/wendydavis/2014/06/17/updates-on-the-gruesome-news-from-ukraine-and-the-underlying-geopolitics/

Russia is a paper tiger these days; it's poor, it's stupid, it's unhealthy, its military is a shadow of its former self, and it's still dining out on tales of when it was a superpower.

And it still has nuclear weapons and your heating fuel. If I accept your description of a Russia struggling with its self-concept at face value, doesn't that make it more likely that they will pound their chest with the only appendage they have left to pound with (i.e. nuclear arms)?

When weighing Russia's poverty, you might want to consider the 30 year oil deal it just signed with China. That looks pretty healthy to me. But then, I live in the world's leading debtor nation.

I'm hoping this resolves itself peacefully, but I don't think that a path to a peaceful resolution is clear at present. We've got the non-declared-but-clearly-running leading Democratic candidate and former Secretary of State calling Putin "Hitler" for chrissakes. (Aside: I agree with Cohen on this point, too, that her doing that should be an automatic disqualification). Personally, if no diplomatic solution is reached and we force Russia to lose the Ukraine, I cannot see how their remaining nukes are not aimed at their aggressors.

Post #392,820 by pwhysall 8/5/14 12:45:51 PM Reply	Why do you think any of this? There's no reason to. Ukraine isn't a member of the EU, nor of NATO. Russia is a paper tiger these days; it's poor, it's stupid, it's unhealthy, its military is a shadow of its former self, and it's still dining out on tales of when it was a superpower. Regional conflict is regional.
Post #392,825 by mmoffitt 8/5/14 1:43:54 PM Reply	Couple things. Ukraine isn't a member of the EU, nor of NATO. Not now. But you can't tell me we haven't been pushing that - and hard. Forbes reported at the time on the “stark difference” between the Russian and Western views “not over the advisability of Ukraine’s integration with the EU but over its likely impact.” The Forbes piece explained that the West knew the pitfalls, and Mark Adomanis’s predictions seem to be coming true. Add in the language that required Ukraine ‘to abide by Europe’s security and military policies’, and as Cohen reasonably decodes it: ‘bring Ukraine into NATO through the back door’. http://my.firedoglake.com/wendydavis/2014/06/17/updates-on-the-gruesome-news-from-ukraine-and-the-underlying-geopolitics/ Russia is a paper tiger these days; it's poor, it's stupid, it's unhealthy, its military is a shadow of its former self, and it's still dining out on tales of when it was a superpower. And it still has nuclear weapons and your heating fuel. If I accept your description of a Russia struggling with its self-concept at face value, doesn't that make it more likely that they will pound their chest with the only appendage they have left to pound with (i.e. nuclear arms)? When weighing Russia's poverty, you might want to consider the 30 year oil deal it just signed with China. That looks pretty healthy to me. But then, I live in the world's leading debtor nation. I'm hoping this resolves itself peacefully, but I don't think that a path to a peaceful resolution is clear at present. We've got the non-declared-but-clearly-running leading Democratic candidate and former Secretary of State calling Putin "Hitler" for chrissakes. (Aside: I agree with Cohen on this point, too, that her doing that should be an automatic disqualification). Personally, if no diplomatic solution is reached and we force Russia to lose the Ukraine, I cannot see how their remaining nukes are not aimed at their aggressors.
Post #392,834 by pwhysall 8/5/14 4:08:31 PM Reply	Nuclear exchange over Ukraine? That's just ridiculous.
Post #392,852 by mmoffitt 8/6/14 9:07:00 AM Reply	No, not exchange, retargetting. Just like in the first Cold War.

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