Israelistine

Post #36,056 by boxley 4/20/02 9:23:29 PM Reply	Israelistine 2 autonomous groups with a very week central government for foreign policy and Israeli army to provide security until an integrated army could be formed. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #36,185 by static 4/23/02 12:28:58 AM Reply	I almost suggested this. The big advantage to this approach is that it solves a lot of border problems, but both sides will have to sacrifice some national identity. Thane's right: neither would like it. Could be worth trying out, though. Over time, the area will probably become predominantly known as either "Palestine" or "Israel", regardless of what the mixed nation is called. Hmm; it would make suicide bombings a largely internal affair, which would also have interesting repurcussions. Wade. "All around me are nothing but fakes Come with me on the biggest fake of all!"
Post #36,190 by a6l6e6x 4/23/02 2:23:31 AM Reply	Israeli Jews would never agree to this. Much like the case of the contested right of return, the Jews would get outnumbered by the Palestinian Arabs and the new state would lose its Jewish character. This is obvious when a Jew from Russia is welcomed to become an Israeli citizen, while a Palestinian Arab who was born and lived in his entire live in Jerusalem is declared to be a Jordanian (a place he's never been). Judged on its actions, Israel is a state with institutionalized religious bigotry, claiming to be a democracy. Alex "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Post #36,196 by Ashton 4/23/02 5:24:40 AM Reply	A trivial point, no doubt - that Israel is the One place in the world where "open season on Jews" is not the norm - or the next expected possibility, should a local scapegoat next need to be found. Yet - it Is open season even there, in the eyes of those whose aim has been (not since just 1948) "to push the Jews into the sea" - all of them. Surprising in this context - that a Jew from Russia might be more welcome than an (Anything) from nearby or anywhere! So your point was? Ashton
Post #36,247 by a6l6e6x 4/23/02 1:09:11 PM Reply	Exclusion, something Jews are quite familiar with,... should be something they ought think about before practicing. The need for exclusion comes with shallow, morally bankrupt hearts and minds. It is too bad you cannot see the Jerusalemite's problem. You paint all Palestinian Arabs with the same brush. At one time, most of them wanted to live in peace. Sure, there were always the ones who wanted "to push the Jews into the sea". There always will be. One could work to make that an ineffective fringe group or a mass movement. What do you suppose has happened in that regard lately? Alex "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Post #36,285 by Ashton 4/23/02 7:00:11 PM Reply	I don't "lump them" they appear to have clumped around - the execrable lying bastard (a full equivalent of Billy Gates) who purports to 'represent them all'. Yes, I know that is not"simple" either: when has there ever been an honest plebiscite allowed ? Penalty for even mild questioning of Arafat's Authority - is known to be death. Ergo - no dialogue; no communication with these 'moderates' you champion. Certainly: no representation of their POV. For whatever combo of normal human ineptness, intimidation by the dominant Authority + worldwide indifference (save for polarised carping, natch) -- there clearly is NO POSSIBILITY of anyone ever 'trusting' the Palestinian Authority, to honor any slightest "commitment". So long as this remains true - perhaps only his removal / assassination might provide the possibility of that long-overdue plebiscite; answering du jour: ~~What percentage of Palestinians -today- will NEVER accept the existence of the State of Israel ?? Without this next stage.. it will remain the sameold same old - how could it not? Ashton
Post #36,210 by boxley 4/23/02 10:24:15 AM Reply	I see, Jews can only be declared safe when they are available for the local population to be abused. Any Jews that wish to be in charge of themselves must be killed immediately. We already know that. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #36,254 by a6l6e6x 4/23/02 1:40:33 PM Reply	No, you don't see. Without question, Jews, have a long history of being abused. The Holocaust is a more extreme example of it. But, some of that is a matter of a having a long history. Do you suppose the native Americans or the blacks of the United States don't have a history of being abused? Or the Chinese by the Japanese? Or most any group perceived as different by a majority or well armed group? Apparently we all engage our territorial reptilian part of the brain. [Creationists ignore last sentence, it's the devil that makes us do it. :)] So are you thinking Jews need a group to abuse? They've earned it! Alex "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)
Post #36,269 by boxley 4/23/02 4:49:35 PM Reply	What it boils down to Is there a place on this earth where only Jews can decide who can kill Jews? the answer seems to be no. Do I think you want to see Israel gone? No I dont. You clearly dislike what is happening now. So do I. The Difference is that since I dont live there I give the folks that do a lot more leeway than If I was living there. Fear is the brother of horror and horror is where insanity becomes the norm, like the camps you grew up in. Things will change as they always must. Hopefully there will be something Jewish left standing. thanx, bill TAM ARIS QUAM ARMIPOTENS
Post #36,314 by a6l6e6x 4/23/02 10:33:58 PM Reply	Fair assesment. The well has been poisoned for now. But, I wish the efforts to build a Greater Israel were re-channeled to building a peace with the Palestinian Arabs. It's difficult, to be sure, but it's the only way an Israel worth having can exist. I also want Israel to be. And, to be a shining example of democracy in the Middle East and not the neo-Nazi state it is today. I would like to see Arabs want to move to Israel for the opportunities there and not to blow up innocents. I would like to see Jews welcomed by its Arab neighbors to live and work and help to civilize them. :) There are Jews in Israel today that could make these things reality in time. But, as I said, the well has been poisoned for now. Alex "Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened." -- Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

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