Post #350,381
11/10/11 6:11:17 AM
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Response Beep?
I think the initial responses you got based on trustworthiness of source is silly.
Even if the source is deemed typically bullshit by an astute observer, it is a source that is read and believed by many, so it is worth the time to figure out what the bullshit of the day is, and then look into further analysis.
It is a matter of what is affecting the belief systems of a large chunk of the population, and then being ready to undercut it with some specific logic.
In response to your original post:
Not Really.
Any followups?
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Post #350,387
11/10/11 7:37:59 AM
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Where you stand depends on where you sit.
(Not speaking for Beep, of course.)
If you've been brought up to believe that: 1) the federal government can't do anything right; 2) bureaucrats in Washington only want to increase their power and take more and more money out of people's pockets to give it to the undeserving; 3) there is a conspiracy among the "elites" to control common people and turn the USA into a Socialist/Communist/Trilateral Commission/Atheist controlled police state; 4) the only way to find out what's "really" happening is to listen to right-wing talk radio and read right-wing sites on the Web; etc., then it's not really surprising that you get outraged by reports like these.
If you think with your gut and aren't willing to consider that there might be a reasonable explanation for things coming out of Washington, then you're probably a Republican of some sort.
"What's the matter with Kansas?" by Franks covers this pretty well, specifically with respect to how anti-abortion dogma ended up as a bedrock of the Republican party. It's a fairly recent development. Other aspects are quite old - e.g. the father of the Koch brothers was a founder of the John Birch Society - http://en.wikipedia....h#Political_views
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
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Post #350,388
11/10/11 7:42:18 AM
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Even if not a "tax"
it is definite "scope creep" of the government.
The fact that government is now expected to administer a promotional campaign for tree importers, cow farmers, pig farmers (the other white meat)...is unnecessary and wasteful.
We can have all sorts of nice things....but we've built reliance on the government in order to provide them. That's just plain stupid.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #350,392
11/10/11 8:15:40 AM
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Ehh
Side show distraction.
How much does it affect the corner lot?
How much do they sell? >500 trees?
Tree costs between 20-100, let's average to 40.
40 * 500 = 20,000 for the threshold of paying and tracking.
$20K - assume $10K profit BEFORE accounting for time spent or hiring someone to man the lot for 1 month. Or cost of the lot.
Assume cost of lot for $2K for the month (I just made that up, is it reasonable?).
Lot / sales guy paid $10 per hour * 60 hours per week * 4 weeks = $2,400.
So assume around $5,500 income for the month's sales if hiring someone to help, else it is worth around $8K for the month if doing it yourself.
How many people cross the threshold, feel the bite, and is it enough to matter to them individually, as opposed to the trivial amount the big guys feel.
And they will probably slap a ticket on the tree explaining the $5 price increase is due to the amount of overhead they have in dealing with the law, and make $4.85 more profit per tree. Like gas price increases get buried in the taxes.
Nah, doesn't bother me. Entertains yes, bothers, no. Too small to matter in either revenue or individual pain experienced. But is a sideshow distraction.
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Post #350,424
11/10/11 7:07:33 PM
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Lost my post eariler - but I agree with BP
This is definitely scope creep.
Some Industry Counsel lobbied and got a "tax|fee|money" on their industry so they could promote the industry. My initial thought - isn't that what the Industry Counsel is for? That's why industry counsels charge memberships/fees so that they can go buy airtime for their industry.
These guys got everyone in the industry...even those who don't belong to the counsel and may have no trouble selling their stock...to pay this tax|fee|money.
That said, those decrying Obama for doing this would be the same ones proposing said fee if they were in power. Their "Is a new tax on Christmas trees the best President Obama can do?" is pure hypocrisy. REPUBLICANS passed the 1996 "Commodity Promotion, Research and Information Act". http://www.govtrack....pd?bill=h104-2854
Wah! Obama is doing what Congress said the President CAN do and HAS BEEN DOING!
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Post #350,425
11/10/11 7:13:01 PM
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And has been doing
might as well include the links.
Here are links to all current national Research and Promotion Programs
Beef  CattlemenÂs Beef Promotion and Research Board http://www.beefboard.org/
Blueberries  U.S. Highbush Blueberry Council http://www.blueberry.org/
Cotton: The Cotton Board http://www.cottonboard.org/
Dairy -- National Dairy Promotion and Research Board http://www.dairychec...om/DairyCheckoff/
Eggs  American Egg Board http://www.aeb.org
Fluid Milk  National Fluid Milk Processor Promotion Board http://www.whymilk.com/
Hass Avocados  Hass Avocado Board http://www.avocadocentral.com/abouthab/
Honey  National Honey Board http://www.nhb.org/
Lamb  American Lamb Board http://www.americanlambboard.org/
Mangos  National Mango Board http://www.nationalmangoboard.com/
Mohair  Mohair Council of America http://www.mohairusa.com/
Mushrooms  Mushroom Council http://www.mushroomcouncil.org/
Peanuts  National Peanut Board http://www.nationalpeanutboard.org/
Popcorn  Popcorn Board http://www.popcorn.org/
Pork National Pork Board http://www.pork.orgPork Checkoff
Potatoes  U.S. Potato Board http://www.healthypotato.com/
Soybeans  United Soybean Board http://www.unitedsoybean.org/
Watermelon  National Watermelon Promotion Board http://www.watermelon.org/
Source: http://www.soybeanch....com/programs.htm
BTW: Look at the co-sponors of the original bill. One name did jump out at me: John Boehner.
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Post #350,396
11/10/11 10:05:58 AM
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I will take 3 for the win
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free American and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 55 years. meep
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Post #350,400
11/10/11 2:07:49 PM
11/10/11 2:08:36 PM
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Re: Response Beep?
I think the initial responses you got based on trustworthiness of source is silly.
Baloney. On numerous occasions Beep has ridiculed sources I've linked to for many of my posts; it's only fair that he is on the receiving end when he uses obviously biased sources that support his viewpoints.
"Chicago to my mind was the only place to be. ... I above all liked the city because it was filled with people all a-bustle, and the clatter of hooves and carriages, and with delivery wagons and drays and peddlers and the boom and clank of freight trains. And when those black clouds came sailing in from the west, pouring thunderstorms upon us so that you couldn't hear the cries or curses of humankind, I liked that best of all. Chicago could stand up to the worst God had to offer. I understood why it was built--a place for trade, of course, with railroads and ships and so on, but mostly to give all of us a magnitude of defiance that is not provided by one house on the plains. And the plains is where those storms come from."
-- E.L. Doctorow
Edited by lincoln
Nov. 10, 2011, 02:08:36 PM EST
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Post #350,416
11/10/11 5:36:44 PM
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His usage sucks as well
I just figure we are running up on the political season, it's gonna get a lot worse, so maybe we can argue the points before the sources.
I'll point it out when he does it too.
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Post #350,421
11/10/11 5:50:49 PM
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Re: His usage sucks as well
won't have to worry about it very often..contrary to one man's opinion. This tactic is used against me (and box) far more often than we employ it.
Sure, understanding today's complex world of the future is a little like having bees live in your head. But...there they are.
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Post #350,428
11/10/11 8:30:45 PM
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Well, I agree with them on it for the most part
They usually come from something fox or drudge or wdn or (name your various "think" thanks), so it is tainted from the start.
But that still means we need to know what bullshit is being is being spewed and find the real source and stomp it. Or address it when real.
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