Yahoo backs spammers over users

Post #33,881 by andread 3/30/02 4:38:50 PM Reply	Yahoo backs spammers over users [link\|http://www.msnbc.com/news/731517.asp\|Check it out] A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #33,883 by Andrew Grygus 3/30/02 5:07:21 PM Reply	Lets get real here First, it says, after you've read the misleading headline and intro and formed a negative opinion, that this applies only to pitches from Yahoo, not from every tom dick and spammy - and that you get 60 days to opt out. Note this article is published by MicroSoftNBC. Microsoft's HotMail has opened the gates, flooding free mailboxes with spam to the point legit mail starts bouncing within a few hours, then telling the users to sign up for "premium service". That means paid service. This article is just an attempt to distract people from HotMail's actions. Yahoo is providing the mailboxes for free. What do you suppose pays for those mailboxes? Advertising. So you think they should block all advertising automatically, even their own, and still give out free mailboxes? I think there's something amiss with that logic. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #33,981 by andread 4/1/02 11:02:02 AM Reply	Re: Lets get real here Yahoo changed its TOS and then wants users to opt out. Knowing full well that most people don't pay attention to such 'technicalities' Meanwhile Andrew G writes: Microsoft's HotMail has opened the gates, flooding free mailboxes with spam to the point legit mail starts bouncing within a few hours, then telling the users to sign up for "premium service". I have had HotMail since '96. I get a large amount of spam, but my email does not bounce unless the box is full and then I get letters from HotMail advising me to delete some items or to subscribe to the premium service. I delete as free is the right price for me. I would have to categorize Andrew's commentary as FUD (or as my father used to call it, hooey) A Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #33,993 by Andrew Grygus 4/1/02 11:55:08 AM Reply	There was discussion of the HotMail problem . . . . on this board a few days back, with links. I don't have time to track it down at the moment. The reality is, Yahoo is losing money. Free email is part of that. What should they do? Continue losing money until they run out and close, returning nothing to their stockholders? Discontinue free mail entirely? Squirrel it around a bit (change TOS) to make keeping it running justifyable?. If you're paying for a service, you have grounds to complain if the TOS is changed. Users of a free service are not stakeholders in that service (but they sure complain a lot). The provider of the service must justify continuing it, or must close it. If changing the TOS enables them to continue it, so be it. Free anything on the Internet is in it's last days. The investment period is over and it's time for some return on that investment - or simply close it and cut the losses if it isn't viable. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #34,285 by jb4 4/3/02 1:48:56 PM Reply	Re: Lets get even realler here OK, so MS~NBC doesn't do it for ya. That's reasonable, IMnsHO. Does [link\|http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/24683.html\|The Register] do it for you any better? It works for me! jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #34,379 by andread 4/4/02 8:53:16 AM Reply	Thanks for the link Play I Some Music w/ Papa Andy Saturday 8 PM - 11 PM ET All Night Rewind 11 PM - 5 PM Reggae, African and Caribbean Music [link\|http://wxxe.org\|Tune In]
Post #34,559 by Andrew Grygus 4/6/02 1:39:26 AM Reply	Not so real at all Today I received the Yahoo! email for two long forgotten accounts. I went to the marketing preferences and found that Third party solicitations are set to "No" by default. Yes there are a bunch for Yahoo! news about Yahoo! services that default to "Yes", but not third party spam. The site was clear and easy to use. it took me less than 4 minutes to turn off the Yahoo! items in both accounts. My conclusion is: The Register, as they are often accused of doing, has filed a pile of sensationalist bullpucky. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #34,561 by Ashton 4/6/02 2:18:44 AM Reply	Nicely scathing M$ letter at aaxnet, Andy (Might wanna fix that 'chose' which wants to be a 'choose' in \ufffd 2) I hope that, despite last-day submission, your sample got through the float.. I think your refrain, ...By abuse of monopoly the public was harmed by being deprived of a superior choice. is employed just right. It reminds the folks who waded through the other 30K entries - just how spot-on is the relevance of each listed atrocity. Imagine the effect of such prose - if we had a functioning not-Corp-controlled justice system! But as always in Murica: it's a crap shoot, and the odds are: the dice ARE loaded. I really HATE that. Ashton
Post #34,577 by jb4 4/6/02 10:57:20 AM Reply	Your tolerance is much higher than mine... ...4 minutes to turn off something that used to be turend off by defualt? Hmmmm... I for one could certainly think of many better ways of spending that 4 minutes than having to inure my inbox from (even more) offers of enlarging my penis or breasts... jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #34,579 by Andrew Grygus 4/6/02 11:05:09 AM Reply	And Yahoo! could probably . . . . think of plenty of better things to do with their money rather than provide free services, if those free services can't be shown to return on the investment in some way. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #34,586 by jb4 4/6/02 2:24:39 PM Reply	Andy... ...are you defending this? jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #34,596 by Ashton 4/6/02 4:49:36 PM Reply	Can't get blood out of a turnip.. And in Our kultur: blood is $$. If the balance sheet is blood-red: you close. So it's: the infinite hassle of a periodic modest fee for everyone OR some means.. of generating New blood. Got a third alternative? Andy's just an honest messenger, y'know? BTW: how many (few) paltry $ would it take to fund All of Yahoo's operations (there are sooo many) IF: every user paid a miniscule sum. $5 a year + [a collection expense as efficient as possible] ?? Is our species smart enough to make it so? Ashton
Post #34,600 by jb4 4/6/02 5:15:30 PM Reply	Hey, I'm enought of a Capitalist to know... ...that nothing is free. If you don't make a profit, you're toast (unless you're a Government, or a "non-profit" corp with its hands in the Government's pocket). But as one whose inbox consists of roughly 99% SPAM (and that CAN be documented!), I am particularly sensitive to, and incensed by, SPAMmers. I have absolutely no use for them, and anybody who harbors, encourages, or otherwise supports this particularly verminous form of low-life will not find a sympathetic ear with me. If this is the best Yayhoo can do, then fuck 'em! Let 'em go under, and good riddance to bad rubbish!!! jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #34,605 by Ashton 4/6/02 5:33:37 PM Reply	OK but: that'll leave all-M$ all-the-Time Everywhere :(
Post #34,695 by jb4 4/8/02 9:56:06 AM Reply	Sorry, but my independent ISP... ...doesn't use (or need) either Yayhoo or Micros~1. (Which is, of course, why they are my independent ISP!) jb4 (Resistance is not futile...)
Post #34,717 by Ashton 4/8/02 1:16:11 PM Reply	Nor mine.. but we aren't 'typical' either (?)
Post #34,725 by Andrew Grygus 4/8/02 1:40:15 PM Reply	Until . . Earthlink finishes buying up all the independents and they all melt down into a steaming pile of confusion and incompetnece. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #34,736 by jb4 4/8/02 2:13:36 PM Reply	At that point... ...I would expect aaxnet.com to start laying in dry copper pairs to appropraite intelligentsia [sic?] such that we can continue to communicate clearly. After all, organized resistance is the thing they fear most...! jb4 (Organized Resistance is not futile...)
Post #34,739 by Ashton 4/8/02 2:41:22 PM Reply	"ISP Awareness Week (or Month) " Dead on. And yup, I was morphed onto/into OneMain when my original - not tiny but at least local - ISP was bought up; then That one was bought up by: Earthlink. Natch. Now I'm on a really-local (2-guys) operation which I can visit and also be sure, if I need to call: either Rob or Ron will likely answer. Who evidently know their shit, too.. Not some guy in Sri Lanka. So.. what are all those (remaining) ISPs doing in a concerted way, so as to spread the cost of getting people's attention? I agree that the loss of the independents can result only in more homogenization, far less control and -- the utterly inevitable decline into the usual. If that isn't scary enough to galvanize any sustained attention: Imagine how ISP-concentration makes it even easier for the Theological Regime to work its way into DMCA-III and other next stuff for our safety and convenience. More practically: are you aware of any National org to which many ISPs belong? Some focal point for a genuine ad campaign touting the virtues of {diversity} ? 'Cause if there isn't such an org.. isn't it about time? Ashton
Post #34,748 by Andrew Grygus 4/8/02 3:31:27 PM Reply	There is an org. . . I don't know how effective it is, but it was involved with fighting PacBell's strong arm monopoly tactics in the last few months. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #34,614 by Andrew Grygus 4/6/02 9:16:57 PM Reply	The inevitable needs no defense . . . . but in fairness to Yahoo! I once again point out that 3rd party messages ("spam") are turned off by default. Only Yahoo!'s own messages promoting their own services are turned on by default. I also point out that the email box my Yahoo! accounts know about is a moderate spam box. I have other boxes that pick up over 300 spam messages a week - each. Free services on the Internet are dying, and they're dying because advertisers don't think they're getting their money's worth (and they're probably right). If Yahoo! finds they can't even get their own messages through, then they have no choice but to discontinue free services. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #34,647 by Meerkat 4/7/02 7:22:33 PM Reply	I guess this counts as 'defending' Yahoo... ...but I'm with the Australian arm who are probably still installing the extra spam-u-like software :) I know everyone elses mileage may vary, but this is my experience with Yahoo mail. In the four or five years I've been operating a Yahoo mail account, I've received zero pieces of spam. Zilch, zero, zip, nada, two fifths of nine eights of bugger-all. The only commercial email I've received is that which I've agreed to receive. And nothing else. Yes I've kept the address out of my browser preferences, out of usenet, etc. Maybe I'm just lucky, but for the cost I've been mostly happy with the quality of Yahoo service. So far. On and on and on and on, and on and on and on goes John.
Post #34,150 by orion 4/2/02 10:49:33 AM Reply	Yahoo backs spoofers as well it seems the spoofers pretending to be me are still going about it, and Yahoo refuses to do anything about it. If I could afford a lawyer, I'd sue. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*
Post #34,653 by orion 4/7/02 9:40:39 PM Reply	So does AOL, MSN, CS, etc. They all back Spammers over users, because Spammers usually pay more to get more bandwidth or pricier accounts to send out their Spam. I seem to recall stories of AOL Spammers getting flooded by AOLHell by people tired of getting their Spam, and AOL booted the people doing the Flood because of TOS agreements, but kept the Spammers online. Same thing happened to parents who had their children targeted by sickos, the sickos got to keep their accounts and the parents who flooded the sicko's accounts got booted off. It is the ultimate in Plutocracy, give the ones paying more money the right of way. *I am free now, to choose my own destiny.*

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