IWETHEY v. 0.3.0 | TODO
1,095 registered users | 0 active users | 0 LpH | Statistics
Login | Create New User
IWETHEY Banner

Welcome to IWETHEY!

New So tell me if you think Washington state is a lost cause...
Ok, I've been mulling some stuff over in my head, based on the way I understand economics to work. I wanna bounce some stuff off of people, see if I'm thinking straight. I have come to the conclusion that the Washington State government is in a downward spiral, and with it, it's ability to support public works (I.E. Roads, mental health, education, etc.) projects. Here's what I've observed:

- I601, passed several years back, prevents the legislature from increasing budgetary spending over a certain amount based on the previous year's budget without a 2/3 vote of the legislature and the declaration of a fiscal emergency.

- This allowed a large budget surplus to build up during fiscal good times. The original intent of I601 was for that surplus to be held as a "rainy day" fund for when times got rough.

- Several people noticed that the fund was getting fat, complained our taxes were too high, and gutted the car tax. This is a vast oversimplification, but what it came down to was that a yearly license fee for a car was changed from one roughly based on the valuation of the car to a flat $30 a year, which had pretty much been the minimum previously. This was during fiscal good times for the state economy.

- Our transportation network has pretty much been shot to shit. No major improvements have been done to the puget sound transportation network in something like 20 years. Some projects had been lined up, but they got slashed when the car license fees were slashed.

- Despite whining from owners, overall property taxes don't raise more than a small amount each year - but people who's land gains value see their property taxes rise at the same time, so they freak about excessive taxation. So far, no attempt to limit the raise of individual property taxes has suceeded - mainly because any attempt to do so is considered discriminatory against those who's land valuations are low, who would have to pick up the balance for those who's land values soared.

- Then the economy went sour. Our state had three major tax revenue sources: Sales tax, Car licensing, and Property taxes. Car tabs went away. Due to a combination of slow sales and people buying outside the state to dodge the sales tax (illegal, you're still supposed to pay it, but nobody does) the revenue for sales tax has seen a serious slide. Never mind that Boeing does all it's transactions in international waters to avoid state sales taxes (7x7 plane takes off with Boeing crew+execs, Airline crew+execs, with Boeing crew piloting, flies out over the pacific ocean, execs sign contract, and the airline crew takes over piloting, flies back into Washington airspace, all done. :P

- So, the state is left with a crappy transportation system, poor tax revenues, no industry base (Boeing is all but gone, and probably will be gone soon, Microsoft is pretty much the only company left around here that is actually hiring.) and stuck in a major recession. Oh, and all the aluminum companies have pretty much shut down now as well, killing the last of our major manufacturing.

- Well, why doesn't the legislature try to institute a more stable (and equitable, as well as federal tax deductible!) tax structure, such as an income tax? Because an income tax is a third rail here in Washington state. Go figure.

- In addition, due to the structure of laws on the books, if state spending dips, it can't be raised again without a "Emergency decree" from the state legislature.

Here's the cycle I see:

1. State hits economic good times, builds surplus.

2. Voters see surplus, think they're overtaxed, use initiative system to reduce taxes.

3. State hits rough times, surplus is gone, spending gets cut big time.

4. State takes longer than usual to come out of recession due to decaying public infrastructure.

5. When state comes out, size of government is significantly reduced, then goto step #1.

Yeah, I know, government isn't the answer to all problems, but hell, some government is needed for essentials, unless you're a libertarian kook. Unless something changes, it looks to me like Wash. State is on it's way to Hell in a handbasket. What do I want from you?

Look over what I wrote.
See if I made any major errors.
If anything isn't clear, ask me questions.
If it's all clear, and I'm right, tell me so.

If enough people tell me I'm right, I'm moving to Washington D.C., with my wife. Seriously.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New Random opinions
One thing you cite is an example of Washington getting it "right" and getting taken advantage of by neighboring states. I prefer sales taxes to income taxes as a primary income source. If neighboring states did the same thing, that would avoid one dodge.

The trick of flying out over the Pacific to sign the contract ... that's so patently deceitful I can't believe it's allowed to go on. As you said, you're supposed to pay the state sales tax anyway. What does the state gain by not cracking down on this practice?

Basically, if all states had more-similar tax structures there would be no incentive to pull stunts like this.

5. When state comes out, size of government is significantly reduced, then goto step #1.

BTW I'm finding it real hard to be upset about that one.
I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make.
I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.
New Boeing screwed Wash state over.
Moved a couple things around in order for them to make more sense as I reply to them.

One thing you cite is an example of Washington getting it "right" and getting taken advantage of by neighboring states. I prefer sales taxes to income taxes as a primary income source. If neighboring states did the same thing, that would avoid one dodge.

Basically, if all states had more-similar tax structures there would be no incentive to pull stunts like this.


We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. While I do think that states should have relatively similar tax structures to avoid these dodges, I don't agree that a VAT tax is the ultimate tax solution.

5. When state comes out, size of government is significantly reduced, then goto step #1.

BTW I'm finding it real hard to be upset about that one.
I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make.
I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.


ROTFLMAO!



Okay, now that I'm done LMAO, I just want to make sure you understand the vicious cycle - it's not just a temporary reduction in the size of state government - due to initiative 601, it ends up being a permanant reduction in the size of state government. Each time the cycle repeats.

I can't be a libertarian because I don't make enough money to hire a bodyguard to protect my money. :)

The trick of flying out over the Pacific to sign the contract ... that's so patently deceitful I can't believe it's allowed to go on. As you said, you're supposed to pay the state sales tax anyway. What does the state gain by not cracking down on this practice?


Well, they used to gain all the jobs that Boeing brought to the region. Boeing had, and still has a lot of political clout in the state. They used that clout to make things favorable for themselves, basically screwing over a lot of projects in the process. Things they ended up complaining about, such as traffic congestion, were directly the result of their attempts to block a bunch of packages in the legislature, because the taxes would cost them money. Basically, it's like the story of the 22 year old supermodel who moves in with the millionare, then dumps him three years later when the money runs out.

A definite warning to the state that took them in...
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New Many other states have the same dilemma
Alaska for one. The state government by not funding projects places a burden on municipalities so while the tax revenues decline at the state level they must be increased at the local level to make up for the shortfall. Quality of life and the ability to earn are 2 important things regardless of the rest. So if you can work there and enjoy living there stay, otherwise work in DC and live in Mannassas Virginia, get used to the long drive.
thanx,
bill
There is no difference between a "settler," "soldier," "secular," or "Chassidic Jew." The target is the JEW.
\ufffd Harvey Tannenbaum
New Well, that's the problem.
Quality of life has gone all to shit:

- Increased commute time due to combination of gridlock/californian immigration/totally unaffordable housing in urban areas.

- No jobs.

- No jobs at reasonable salaries. Somebody wanted me to take a PC support job at $7.00/hour part time, no benefits. I'm making more on unemployment!

- Economic downswing.

My dad moved out to D.C. a few years back, and he's convinced it's raining soup there. My wife and I have both checked out the want ads, salaries are massively higher (like 2x what I USED to make here for the same work I was doing here) and the rent really isn't all that different than here.

Can't complain...
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New Quality of live in DC
We hated it there.

Salaries were OK, the rent was ungodly... $800/mo for 734 sq ft 20 miles out of the city, and this was back in 1992. COL is generally quite a bit higher out there, and it's nearly impossible to buy a house.

Not to mention #1) the national news is the local news, #2) it's a very fake city... I didn't like the people at all (no offence, AScott, just how it seemed), and #3) we got tired of turning on the news and hearing about how 11 kids got shot in the space of 4 hours in Anacostia the night before.

Hot and muggy out there too. :-)
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New It's the doorway to hell.
One of the worst places I've ever lived, worked or visited. Expensive everything. Insane drivers. Horrible weather. Worlds worst street grid. Politicians live there (shudder). Some good things though; outstanding food, great museums, exemplary public transportation.

The bad thoroughly outweighs the good IMO.
With this much manure around, there must be a pony somewhere.
New Yup, do miss the food/museums/subway.
But as you say, the rest of it sucked too much.

I drove like a complete asshole for the first 6 months after we moved back to Michigan. They are insane around DC. Using a blinker is a sign of weakness, and other drivers will maneuver to make sure you can't complete your unfortunately telegraphed intent.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New OK then, revised 'Targets from Orbit' schedule:
1) Redmond WA (natch - its preprinted on the target form)
2) DC
3) 700 Club HQ


any others?
New Hey!
DC's had enough stuff falling from the sky in the last 6.x months.

:-(

Some of us iWeThey-ers live in the area, ya know.

DC's got good and bad points. Nobody's forcing you to visit.

:-)

I'd certainly think Mugabe's or Saddam's compounds would be higher up on the list than the city up the road....

Cheers,
Scott.
New Well, if you want another neighbor...
...tell me what you think of Fredricksburg.

We're looking at an apartment complex there, but know nothing about the town.
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New Don't know much about it.
There are an awful lot of suburbs around here....

[link|http://www.fredericksburg.com|Fredericksburg.com] - a paper in the town. [link|http://fredericksburg.com/Homes/Listings|Here]'s some real estate listings. Don't be shocked - it starts with expensive homes. [link|http://fredericksburg.com/Homes/Listings?query_start=1301|Some $98k homes]. Browse around.

Homes in good neighborhoods closer to DC can be very expensive. Houses in our subdivision have gone up about 50% in the last 4 years. The housing market is very strong around here. Part of the reason why housing is so expensive is: 1) the cost of land (DC has building restrictions - nothing can be taller than the Capitol), 2) little undeveloped land close to the city, 3) people want to be in areas with good schools. It mainly comes down to supply and demand. Housing is generally cheaper in some parts of Maryland - e.g. Prince George's County. But the schools there have a terrible reputation. VA suburbs can be very expensive (e.g. Reston, Old Town Alexandria) or inexpensive (parts of Prince William County), or you can get a much larger house with more land if you're willing to live farther out and put up with a long commute. It's a tradeoff.

Fredericksburg is pretty far from DC - about 52 miles. It wouldn't be a terrible commute compared to some I've heard about (people literally commuting from northern NC to DC every day), but I-95 (like many of the expressways in the area) is often is backed up during "rush-hour" (approximately 5-6AM to 9-10AM and 3-7 PM). The commute would likely take 75-90 minutes or more if you had to go to DC daily.

Virginia is generally organized in to counties (i.e. unless you live in a city, the county government is more important). Fredericksburg is in Spotsylvania county. [link|http://www.spotsylvania.va.us/|Spotsylvania County].

I've never been there, but imagine it's a nice part of the state - pretty countryside. Lots of Civil War sites in the area. Close to the Potomac and not far from Richmond and DC (about 50 miles each). Maybe 2.5 hours to Virginia Beach if you like the ocean.

Best of luck with your decisions! HTH.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Rushhour...
... around DC is all day long, Scott. :-)

Maybe you don't quite get complete backups in the middle of the day, but 495 at 3AM is as busy as I75 up here at 8AM.

DC has the second worst traffic in the nation, after LA.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New Fredericksburg is nice
have just visited around there, not lived. Close to Old dominion racetrack, fast run south to 6 flags just north of Richmond and if ya get a job in Reston not too hard a commute, guestimate an Hr.
thanx,
bill
There is no difference between a "settler," "soldier," "secular," or "Chassidic Jew." The target is the JEW.
\ufffd Harvey Tannenbaum
New Just a couple of more pennies
As another resident of the DC area, I guess I'd better throw in a couple of pennies. As with most things, it all depends upon the part of the elephant you're looking at.

I live just west of Manassas. I used to commute to Reston (too expensive to live there), and if I left early enough (6 a.m.), I could usually get there in about a half hour. They moved us downtown D.C., though. Now, I take the train (the station is about 10-15 minutes from where I live, and the train stops a couple of blocks from where I work). The train ride is about an hour.

Having lived in Washington and Oregon (born and raised there), Utah, Minnesota, and Wisconsin, I'd have to say that northern Virginia has better weather than the others (this winter, we've had a *really* mild winter). The traffic is terrible, but you tend to work around it (driver earlier, take mass transit, etc.). There's still lots of traffic...guess you get used to it (yes, I'm a terrible driver).

There's lots to do that's available from mass transit (Smithsonian, etc.). That's definitely a big plus. Housing is *very* expensive, though not a far cry from other metropolis areas (certainly not as bad as some in CA). But, outside of housing, the prices are comparable to other places.

I actually enjoy living here (I certainly don't like the traffic, and it's only going to get worse, but I try to avoid it as much as I can...I don't (refuse) to drive in downtown D.C.).

Dan
New Well, you could move to California...
- Increased commute time due to combination of gridlock/californian immigration/totally unaffordable housing in urban areas.
...so's we all could bash y'all for a while....
--
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
[link|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/|[link|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/|http://kmself.ix.netcom.com/]]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
New I know that was in jest...
...but I can't let that slide, and you know it. :)

Actually, I wasn't bashing Californians - it's basically what happened. The formula goes something like this:

LA Smog+massive traffic jams+magazines proclaiming Washington "Best Quality Of Life" = Mass immigration from California to Washington.

IIRC, wasn't California the prior "best quality of life" state that got a lot of publicity? Makes sense - you advertise a good quality of life, and suddenly everybody wants to live there, turning it into a living hell. :P
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
New Crowds attract people
Seriously. Does anyone want to go to a restaurant that no one else goes to? Don't people try harder to get into nightclubs that are already full of people? And, remember what happened in high school whenever there was a fight? Must be a herd thing.
I can't be a Democrat because I like to spend the money I make.
I can't be a Republican because I like to spend the money I make on drugs and whores.
New I remember what happened in high school...
...everybody stood around while I broke up the fight. :P
"He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
     So tell me if you think Washington state is a lost cause... - (inthane-chan) - (18)
         Random opinions - (drewk) - (1)
             Boeing screwed Wash state over. - (inthane-chan)
         Many other states have the same dilemma - (boxley) - (15)
             Well, that's the problem. - (inthane-chan) - (14)
                 Quality of live in DC - (admin) - (9)
                     It's the doorway to hell. - (Silverlock) - (7)
                         Yup, do miss the food/museums/subway. - (admin) - (6)
                             OK then, revised 'Targets from Orbit' schedule: - (Ashton) - (5)
                                 Hey! - (Another Scott) - (4)
                                     Well, if you want another neighbor... - (inthane-chan) - (3)
                                         Don't know much about it. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                             Rushhour... - (admin)
                                         Fredericksburg is nice - (boxley)
                     Just a couple of more pennies - (dshellman)
                 Well, you could move to California... - (kmself) - (3)
                     I know that was in jest... - (inthane-chan) - (2)
                         Crowds attract people - (drewk) - (1)
                             I remember what happened in high school... - (inthane-chan)

Oops. Wrong hat.
71 ms