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New Nit
The numbers prove that Israel cares about civilians and therefore every building in Israel has a bomb shelter and every apartment built since 1991 has a secure room.
No, that proves Israel cares about Israelis.

I know that based on this you're going to think I'm in favor of exterminating all Jews, and I can't stop you from choosing to think that. But there something you should remember, even if only for the sake of tactics: You have a lot more credibility if you can admit when your opponent has a point.

Yes, Hezbollah is hiding among women and children. Yes, they want Israel to be seen killing women and children. But yes, Israel is killing women and children. Say all you want to that they don't want to. So that they have no better alternative. Say it's unintended collateral damage when taking out legitimate military targets. All of that will be true. But it will still be true that Israel has killed hundreds of civilians. Is it impossible for you to feel sorrow at that?
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Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New Indeed.
Bluke needs to take a deep breath and look at things like [link|http://blog.washingtonpost.com/worldopinionroundup/2006/08/the_qana_tipping_point.html|this] collection of published opinions from around the world.

E.g.:

Israel's current strategy, if it does not change, will create new enemies, says Anthony Cordesman, military analyst for the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, a conservative think tank.

Israel, he says, entered the war "on [link|http://www.csis.org/component/option,com_csis_progj/task,view/id,724/|deeply flawed] grand strategic and tactical principles, and seems to have fought the ideological and political dimension on the basis of the perceptions of Israelis and Americans. The IAF and IDF have so far been clumsy in both air and artillery operations, and sought tactical advantage at serious risk of excessive civilian casualties and collateral damage. Military cultures do not change in mid-operation and the incredibly clumsy IDF and Israeli government response to Qana is a case in point. Israel will, however, have to learn in the future if it does not want to take a largely passive region and turn it into an active enemy."

Hezbollah has already won a political victory, says Haaretz's Akiva Eldar.

"Irrespective of when the war in the north ends, it already has claimed [link|http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744440.html|a place of honor] in Arab victory albums, along with the Egyptian 'victory' in 1973. The political leadership is beginning to grasp that even if we manage to send Hassan Nasrallah on the journey taken by Ahmed Yassin, Hezbollah (the Party of Allah), like Hamas, will not disappear from this world. Moreover, according to the plan Condoleezza Rice is carrying around, Hezbollah is expected to exit this war having extricated the Lebanese prisoners and the Shaba Farms from Israel, and still get to keep some of its arsenal."


The IDF and the Israeli government need to remember that war is politics by other means. Keep your eye on what you want to achieve politically and don't assume that military action will achieve your goals. It's a tool - not the end in itself. The goal should be to achieve a political solution, not to disarm or crush or substantially weaken Hezbollah or humiliate Nasrallah. If Israel doesn't understand that soon, they, and the world, are in for even more pain. [link|http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060801/D8J7JKB80.html|Pushing deeper into Lebanon] is just going to make things worse, IMO.

Cheers,
Scott.
     What really happened in Kfar Kana in Lebanon? - (bluke) - (50)
         Are you paid to be an apologist - (jake123) - (2)
             he lives there he has a right, same right you have - (boxley) - (1)
                 Thanks Box - (bluke)
         according to survivors there was 2 explosions - (boxley)
         Bloomberg story. - (Another Scott)
         Hezbollywood? Evidence mounts that Qana collapse was staged - (bluke) - (26)
             Hardly an unbiased source... - (pwhysall) - (20)
                 Can you explain the 7 hour time difference? - (bluke) - (19)
                     doesnt matter, its still dead kids - (boxley) - (1)
                         It makes a huge difference - (bluke)
                     The way *they say* the bodies look, you mean. - (pwhysall) - (16)
                         Re: The way *they say* the bodies look, you mean. - (bluke) - (15)
                             Re: The way *they say* the bodies look, you mean. - (pwhysall) - (14)
                                 How about this? - (bluke) - (13)
                                     kid is still dead -NT - (boxley)
                                     Well, then, let's just look at the numbers - (jake123) - (11)
                                         Re: Well, then, let's just look at the numbers - (bluke) - (10)
                                             Nit - (drewk) - (1)
                                                 Indeed. - (Another Scott)
                                             You're seriously comparing this to WWII? - (Simon_Jester) - (5)
                                                 Well, sure! - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
                                                     snicker -NT - (boxley)
                                                     It's worked swimmingly in Grozny, too. 23 kB .img - (Another Scott)
                                                 I don't understand your point - (bluke) - (1)
                                                     I know... - (Simon_Jester)
                                             If we're going to go down that road... - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                                 ICLRPD (new thread) - (jb4)
             Welcome to the war of public opinion - (bepatient)
             More evidence - (bluke) - (3)
                 Ooh, blogs. - (pwhysall)
                 My brother used to make doznes of those a day for a living - (boxley)
                 FWIW (and that ain't much) - (drewk)
         Qana seems to be a popular setting for IDF mistakes - (altmann) - (14)
             That could be why Hezbollah would stage something ... - (bluke) - (13)
                 Willing to believe anything that lets them off the hook, eh? -NT - (jake123) - (12)
                     And you are willing to believe any Arab propaganda - (bluke) - (11)
                         The reality is that PR is another front line - (bepatient) - (1)
                             LRPD sees and raises: It's the greatest tool ever invented - (Ashton)
                         arabs masterbate to that stuff - (boxley) - (8)
                             100% percent - (bluke)
                             That is what I am here for :) -NT - (bluke) - (6)
                                 You are a riot! On this topic, you have zero credibility. - (a6l6e6x) - (5)
                                     You think you do? - (bluke) - (4)
                                         I read that old thread again. - (a6l6e6x) - (3)
                                             Shaba farms even according to the UN is not Lebanese - (bluke) - (1)
                                                 On the other hand, Israel is even less qualified.... - (a6l6e6x)
                                             I wasn't crying "massacre" without evidence - (bluke)
         Somehow the number of dead has been cut in half - (bluke) - (2)
             you continually miss the point - (boxley) - (1)
                 "One death is a tragedy, one thousand dead is a statistic." -NT - (drewk)

boring
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