On the other hand....

Post #25,475 by Another Scott 1/24/02 12:32:35 PM Reply	On the other hand.... It's common in discussions to use short-hand to identify political beliefs. E.g. a person who is a member of the Republican party would likely call him/herself a Republican. Similarly, Mao or Stalin, who were members of the Communist Party of their respective countries, would call themselves Communists. Would they follow the "true" political philosophy of Marx? No. Does that mean that they aren't Communists? I don't think so, in the commonly understood meaning of the term (as a way to distinguish membership/belief in a political system). But arguing semantics like this is pointless. Just as it's pointless to say that, as a hypothetical example, members of the Southern Baptist Convention aren't "true" Baptists because they don't exclusively follow the complete teachings of John the Baptist. My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #25,489 by Brandioch 1/24/02 1:02:16 PM Reply	Semantics - Stewart Chase - The Tyranny of Words "It's common in discussions to use short-hand to identify political beliefs." And such a practice is fine, as long as all participants understand the terms used. "Would they follow the "true" political philosophy of Marx? No." I agree. "Does that mean that they aren't Communists? I don't think so, in the commonly understood meaning of the term (as a way to distinguish membership/belief in a political system)." I disagree. If we're going to have a discussion, why don't we use the correct terms? How many people here get bent out of shape if I mix up hacker/cracker? But in the public's mind, they're the same. Or if I point out that Internet Explorer is Free Software? Or that Bill Gates helped start the Free Software movement? You see, correct usage of terms can be vitally important to discussions.
Post #25,496 by Another Scott 1/24/02 1:22:45 PM Reply	"Correct" is a matter of consensus. Both sides are expressing what I regard to be defensible views of communism. You and Ashton are addressing the political philosophy, Alex and others are talking about the actual expression of what is claimed, by name by the participants, to be a communist party. You're both right. But you're using the term to mean two different things and trying to show that the other is wrong. Discussion doesn't depend upon "correct" usage. It depends on the participants agreeing on what the terms mean - whether a dictionary or encyclopedia agrees or not. Yes, things are simpler if we agree on an unbiased reference. You're not going to convince Alex that he's wrong, and vice versa, until you come to a consensus about the terms you're using. Just as one has to come to a consensus about the use of the word free in "free software", "free lunch", "free electron", "free energy", etc. Discussions about terminology aren't very interesting, IMO.... Cheers, Scott.
Post #25,509 by Brandioch 1/24/02 1:48:08 PM Reply	Tyranny of the majority? "...Alex and others are talking about the actual expression of what is claimed, by name by the participants, to be a communist party." And I believe I have explained why "common usage" is not the correct way to discuss the matters. Unless you are willing to also say that hackers and crackers are both acceptable and that Internet Explorer is Free Software. If you repeat the same lies often enough and loud enough, they become "truth". I understand that concept. I understand its application. I do not have any respect for the intelligence of anyone who thinks that this "truth" is a fact.
Post #25,497 by marlowe 1/24/02 1:23:53 PM Reply	Does anyone follow the pure philosophy of Marx? Did even Marx follow it? From what I've read on his personal life, he didn't. Brandioch is an expert on who is not a true Marxist. He has a simple formula. For any given X, X is not a true disciple of Marx. Hell, anybody can apply that formula. A trained monkey could do it. Maybe even un untrained one. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html] Sometimes "tolerance" is just a word for not dealing with things.

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