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IWETHEY Home / IWETHEY Board / Religion, Philosophy, Metaphysics Forum / ID is supernatural by definition
Post #237,601
by pwhysall
Picture of pwhysall
12/11/05 2:08:17 AM
Reply
New ID is supernatural by definition
ID implies a designer.

A designer is a creator.

Well, ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long, you've just found God.

Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #237,603
by drewk
Picture of drewk
12/11/05 2:10:43 AM
Reply
New That's just a fortunate side effect.
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
Post #237,611
by jake123
12/11/05 8:11:12 AM
Reply
New Not it's not.
Anybody who comes out with "ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long" is not bringing good fortune to anyone around them.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #237,623
by pwhysall
Picture of pwhysall
12/11/05 10:39:16 AM
Reply
New I see I need to expand my Ministry.
After all, if you believe in ID, then it's entirely feasible that Jesus built your hotrod.

Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #237,624
by boxley
12/11/05 10:40:35 AM
Reply
New I beleive he did, parts stamped made in mexico
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #237,626
by hnick
12/11/05 10:44:34 AM
Reply
New That would be where every third guy is named Jesus?
I know, different pronunciation
Post #237,627
by pwhysall
Picture of pwhysall
12/11/05 10:59:30 AM
Reply
New Philistine.

Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #237,764
by jb4
Picture of jb4
12/12/05 1:37:23 PM
Reply
New Damn! You mean Janis Joplin was RIGHT?!?
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
Post #237,614
by warmachine
12/11/05 9:48:38 AM
Reply
New Creator need not be supernatural. May be ultra-tech aliens.
Matthew Greet


Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #237,615
by imric
12/11/05 9:51:18 AM
Reply
New And they were 'designed' to produce us, of course...
Imric's Tips for Living
  • Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
  • Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
  • Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.


Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
 
 
Post #237,633
by warmachine
12/11/05 1:56:48 PM
Reply
New ID makes no assertian of the designer, designed or not.
Although the ID advocates have a blatant, religious agenda, ID itself was written to have no religious aspect at all. This is an attempt to circumvent the ban on teaching religion in public schools. ID is not supernatural by definition. Claiming the ultra-tech alien designers evolved by natural selection would not contradict ID itself.
Matthew Greet


Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #237,634
by Andrew Grygus
Picture of Andrew Grygus
12/11/05 2:08:28 PM
Reply
New Except it's basic tenet . . .
. . that something as complex and organized as an ultra-tech alien capable of creating us could come about without a creator. How many levels do you want to push this back to delay uncovering the final absurdity?

My own opinion is just the opposite of ID, that life on Earth is far too complex and intertwined to have been designed - it could only have evolved.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
Post #237,655
by warmachine
12/11/05 5:26:30 PM
Reply
New That's an extrapolation of ID itself, not a basic tenet.
Although the ID advocates believe the designer is their god, ID does not describe he/she/it/them beyond being intelligent. ID is supernatural by implication, not definition.

And I agree, the richness and interdependency of life on Earth makes it implausible that it was designed.
Matthew Greet


Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on a Sunday morning. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pishing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourself. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that? I chose not to choose life. I chose somethin' else. And the reasons? There are no reasons. Who needs reasons when you've got heroin?
- Mark Renton, Trainspotting.
Post #237,766
by jb4
Picture of jb4
12/12/05 1:41:33 PM
Reply
New Here's you task for today, grasshopper:
Go find your friendly, neighborhood, neocon fundie whackjob ID proponent, and get him/her to agree, without reservation, to your previous post. We await your report....
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
Post #237,809
by Ashton
12/12/05 6:18:23 PM
Reply
New You forgot: bring a bodyguard -
Some of these folks get Violent when you come near their fav topic, the Prince of Peace.


<Spock on> It is not logical. But it is often true.</Spock>
Post #237,811
by jb4
Picture of jb4
12/12/05 6:27:24 PM
Reply
New What does the Prince of Peace have to do with ID?
Oh...that's right...








Mever mind....!
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
Post #237,814
by Andrew Grygus
Picture of Andrew Grygus
12/12/05 6:32:10 PM
Reply
New Nothing at all - we're talking GOD here . . .
. . the "Vengeful Smiter" who is "God the creator". That kid didn't create noth'n 'cept trouble.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
Post #237,819
by Ashton
12/12/05 8:17:17 PM
Reply
New Heard a lengthy discussion re Yahweh -
as bein pretty much what you said -- not 'God\ufffd' but a kind of pixie, droppin in for inspections. It seems that in the Judaeo early versions, all intermixed with Greek and other: there are at least three other entities vying for the CIEIO title. (The speaker was pissed, saying that #1 has been AWOL; the Covenant wasn't being honored by the *#1, so ... what matters 'faith' that it will/would be? etc.)

* Specifically (he sez), #1 declared, via I Am That I Am - that "S/He would show up if and when S/He Chooses" ==> ergo, that includes never.

cha cha and cha


I do love these monographs re internecine squabbles about Whom you should kill today, for dissin *your* fav Peace Loving construct - today, or thousands of yesterdays ago. Then.. when I'm off-the-wall, I can say: well, at least there are some in need of even more therapeutic endorphins than moi.



- so maybe it's OK for me to invite a zealot for lunch. There's even a forum with recipes. Roti? saut\ufffd appears popular with the Faithful: for others. But I'm pretty clumsy in the kitchen.
Post #237,827
by boxley
12/12/05 8:52:42 PM
Reply
New look it doesnt apply to you gentiles, its a realestate
transaction, in exchange for some specific dirt, judeah only, in exhange for observing some laws and not praising other agents in the vicinity the tenants get to camp there forever. If the laws are broken or ignored, tenant pretends there is no landlord he kicks them out until he deems them sufficiently remorseful then gives it back. Thats the covenant. Nothing else. Now all you gentiles have your own problems including believing that the covnent extended to someone else is provided with no fees just a weekly mea culpa and you expect to own the whole damn thing. Sorry it doesnt work that way. Same with the other bone headed followers of a long haul camel jockey. Go get your own god.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #237,831
by Another Scott
12/12/05 8:57:01 PM
Reply
New DPRLCI (new thread)
Created as new thread #237830 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=237830|DPRLCI]
Post #237,616
by hnick
12/11/05 10:05:27 AM
Reply
New Nothing wrong with a creator
As long as it's a black box for damnifiknow
It's only when somebody KNOWS what the black box wants everybody to do that it becomes a problem.
     If you think being anti-OOP is controversial.... - (tablizer) - (113) - Dec. 3, 2005, 11:19:25 PM EST
         well that pretty much sinks ID :-) - (boxley) - (100) - Dec. 3, 2005, 11:34:40 PM EST
             No, it is not a "soft" science - (ben_tilly) - (74) - Dec. 4, 2005, 05:05:19 AM EST
                 it is a philosophy, noted soft science much like psychology - (boxley) - (73) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:06:58 AM EST
                     how about theology. -NT - (bepatient) - (1) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:27:23 AM EST
                         subscience of philosophy -NT - (boxley) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:28:26 AM EST
                     No, it isn't. - (pwhysall) - (20) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:40:23 AM EST
                         Is sociology a science? -NT - (bepatient) - (2) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:56:23 AM EST
                             In places, yes. - (pwhysall) - (1) - Dec. 4, 2005, 11:01:31 AM EST
                                 In part it is the same methodology - (bepatient) - Dec. 4, 2005, 01:31:50 PM EST
                         point out differences between the examples - (boxley) - (16) - Dec. 4, 2005, 01:33:57 PM EST
                             ID starts with a creator. - (pwhysall) - (15) - Dec. 4, 2005, 01:58:25 PM EST
                                 Not really - (bepatient) - (14) - Dec. 4, 2005, 07:44:12 PM EST
                                     And how is that not creationism? - (pwhysall) - (13) - Dec. 5, 2005, 01:26:12 AM EST
                                         No. Well, sorta. - (drewk) - (4) - Dec. 5, 2005, 09:22:03 AM EST
                                             How is a designer not a creator? -NT - (pwhysall) - (2) - Dec. 7, 2005, 03:33:23 PM EST
                                                 If the universe designed itself in a fit of recursion -NT - (ChrisR) - Dec. 7, 2005, 03:52:40 PM EST
                                                 That's what ID people say, and why I didn't say it - (drewk) - Dec. 7, 2005, 07:13:54 PM EST
                                             Re: No. Well, sorta. - (danreck) - Dec. 8, 2005, 05:11:29 PM EST
                                         Minor difference - (bepatient) - (7) - Dec. 5, 2005, 03:52:31 PM EST
                                             Same difference - (Silverlock) - (6) - Dec. 5, 2005, 04:44:56 PM EST
                                                 No again - (bepatient) - (5) - Dec. 5, 2005, 09:02:50 PM EST
                                                     No again - (ben_tilly) - (4) - Dec. 5, 2005, 10:08:02 PM EST
                                                         Sturgeon? -NT - (jake123) - Dec. 5, 2005, 11:13:40 PM EST
                                                         (Could be fun - with chromosomes.) -NT - (Ashton) - Dec. 5, 2005, 11:36:47 PM EST
                                                         If there is significance to the variable names, then - (jbrabeck) - (1) - Dec. 7, 2005, 03:57:54 PM EST
                                                             It's fun seeing people guess but... - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 7, 2005, 04:19:28 PM EST
                     I feel that the other examples are not sciences either - (ben_tilly) - (48) - Dec. 4, 2005, 09:39:09 PM EST
                         Agreed, social science might be a better descriptive - (boxley) - (47) - Dec. 5, 2005, 01:22:41 PM EST
                             You are right that those are missing... - (ben_tilly) - (46) - Dec. 5, 2005, 10:03:44 PM EST
                                 Not interested enough to read the literature :-) - (boxley) - (45) - Dec. 6, 2005, 09:38:58 AM EST
                                     Thats the issue - (bepatient) - (44) - Dec. 6, 2005, 11:34:33 AM EST
                                         Can ID be experimentally disproven? - (imric) - (43) - Dec. 6, 2005, 12:02:26 PM EST
                                             disagree - (boxley) - (31) - Dec. 6, 2005, 12:05:20 PM EST
                                                 Don't think so. - (imric) - (30) - Dec. 6, 2005, 12:15:29 PM EST
                                                     if you can predict results from the patterns then - (boxley) - (29) - Dec. 6, 2005, 12:48:17 PM EST
                                                         Nope. That's just genetics. ID is not genetics. - (imric) - (28) - Dec. 6, 2005, 12:57:23 PM EST
                                                             Q for ID-ers: How I is the D of, say, flightless birds? -NT - (Meerkat) - (27) - Dec. 6, 2005, 03:54:07 PM EST
                                                                 I always use hemroids. - (Andrew Grygus) - Dec. 6, 2005, 04:13:35 PM EST
                                                                 gotta have something easy to catch and consume - (boxley) - Dec. 6, 2005, 05:51:33 PM EST
                                                                 Intelligent Design is a dead give away... - (ChrisR) - (2) - Dec. 6, 2005, 08:46:36 PM EST
                                                                     Don't forget the other moral of the example you are quoting - (ben_tilly) - (1) - Dec. 6, 2005, 10:23:29 PM EST
                                                                         Or even - - (Ashton) - Dec. 7, 2005, 07:44:29 PM EST
                                                                 HD - Halfwit Design - (tablizer) - (21) - Dec. 10, 2005, 11:07:56 PM EST
                                                                     ID is supernatural by definition - (pwhysall) - (20) - Dec. 11, 2005, 02:08:17 AM EST
                                                                         That's just a fortunate side effect. -NT - (drewk) - (6) - Dec. 11, 2005, 02:10:43 AM EST
                                                                             Not it's not. - (jake123) - (5) - Dec. 11, 2005, 08:11:12 AM EST
                                                                                 I see I need to expand my Ministry. - (pwhysall) - (4) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:39:16 AM EST
                                                                                     I beleive he did, parts stamped made in mexico -NT - (boxley) - (2) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:40:35 AM EST
                                                                                         That would be where every third guy is named Jesus? - (hnick) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:44:34 AM EST
                                                                                         Philistine. -NT - (pwhysall) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:59:30 AM EST
                                                                                     Damn! You mean Janis Joplin was RIGHT?!? -NT - (jb4) - Dec. 12, 2005, 01:37:23 PM EST
                                                                         Creator need not be supernatural. May be ultra-tech aliens. -NT - (warmachine) - (11) - Dec. 11, 2005, 09:48:38 AM EST
                                                                             And they were 'designed' to produce us, of course... -NT - (imric) - (10) - Dec. 11, 2005, 09:51:18 AM EST
                                                                                 ID makes no assertian of the designer, designed or not. - (warmachine) - (9) - Dec. 11, 2005, 01:56:48 PM EST
                                                                                     Except it's basic tenet . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (1) - Dec. 11, 2005, 02:08:28 PM EST
                                                                                         That's an extrapolation of ID itself, not a basic tenet. - (warmachine) - Dec. 11, 2005, 05:26:30 PM EST
                                                                                     Here's you task for today, grasshopper: - (jb4) - (6) - Dec. 12, 2005, 01:41:33 PM EST
                                                                                         You forgot: bring a bodyguard - - (Ashton) - (5) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:18:23 PM EST
                                                                                             What does the Prince of Peace have to do with ID? - (jb4) - (4) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:27:24 PM EST
                                                                                                 Nothing at all - we're talking GOD here . . . - (Andrew Grygus) - (3) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:32:10 PM EST
                                                                                                     Heard a lengthy discussion re Yahweh - - (Ashton) - (2) - Dec. 12, 2005, 08:17:17 PM EST
                                                                                                         look it doesnt apply to you gentiles, its a realestate - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 12, 2005, 08:52:42 PM EST
                                                                                                             DPRLCI (new thread) - (Another Scott) - Dec. 12, 2005, 08:57:01 PM EST
                                                                         Nothing wrong with a creator - (hnick) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:05:27 AM EST
                                             Post of the Week (and it's only Tuesday...)! - (jb4) - Dec. 6, 2005, 02:27:07 PM EST
                                             Falsifiable, Trueifiable - (tablizer) - (9) - Dec. 10, 2005, 11:03:20 PM EST
                                                 Patterns... Pattern institute? - (imric) - (8) - Dec. 11, 2005, 01:47:07 AM EST
                                                     fairies exist, saw one once - (boxley) - (7) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:23:01 AM EST
                                                         heh, knew where that was going -NT - (bepatient) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:23:59 AM EST
                                                         So the teacher asks the kid - (hnick) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:31:25 AM EST
                                                         They wear boots - ya gotta believe... -NT - (imric) - (3) - Dec. 11, 2005, 04:22:52 PM EST
                                                             I saw it I saw it with my own two eyes -NT - (jake123) - (1) - Dec. 11, 2005, 04:52:11 PM EST
                                                                 Well all right now! -NT - (imric) - Dec. 11, 2005, 05:02:00 PM EST
                                                             And around here they ride Harleys. -NT - (Andrew Grygus) - Dec. 11, 2005, 04:56:43 PM EST
                                                         Me too...I watch Bravo.... -NT - (jb4) - Dec. 12, 2005, 01:43:15 PM EST
                     What's in a name? - (ChrisR) - Dec. 5, 2005, 10:03:50 AM EST
             Google 'ontological proof of god' for some pithy links - (Ashton) - (4) - Dec. 4, 2005, 05:52:22 AM EST
                 see my answer to Ben, -NT - (boxley) - (3) - Dec. 4, 2005, 10:08:16 AM EST
                     Unsatisfying, just word/def'n pandering. - (Ashton) - (2) - Dec. 4, 2005, 07:12:30 PM EST
                         look, if some mook wants to look at dna - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 4, 2005, 08:10:25 PM EST
                             Quite right-enough - (Ashton) - Dec. 4, 2005, 09:09:38 PM EST
             Sep. of church/state laws don't govern philosophy - (tablizer) - (19) - Dec. 10, 2005, 10:56:12 PM EST
                 It's FRAUD if you call it science instead of philosophy. -NT - (imric) - (18) - Dec. 11, 2005, 01:48:21 AM EST
                     then psychology is fraud -NT - (boxley) - (17) - Dec. 11, 2005, 10:37:53 AM EST
                         This is news? -NT - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 11, 2005, 12:43:21 PM EST
                         Soft science. - (imric) - Dec. 11, 2005, 04:59:52 PM EST
                         That would be "Psychology is FREUD" - (imqwerky) - (14) - Dec. 11, 2005, 09:30:36 PM EST
                             accuse me? - (boxley) - (12) - Dec. 11, 2005, 11:00:42 PM EST
                                 No, he didn't - (Ashton) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:33:13 AM EST
                                 I'm still not getting the connection... - (pwhysall) - (9) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:36:57 AM EST
                                     Negative. - (imric) - (8) - Dec. 12, 2005, 07:07:51 AM EST
                                         OK... - (pwhysall) - (7) - Dec. 12, 2005, 07:10:47 AM EST
                                             OT branch - (imric) - (5) - Dec. 12, 2005, 07:13:28 AM EST
                                                 Damn Scientologists - (pwhysall) - (4) - Dec. 12, 2005, 07:17:11 AM EST
                                                     ROFL! -NT - (imric) - Dec. 12, 2005, 07:25:59 AM EST
                                                     Anyone catch "Last Laugh 2005" over the weekend? - (drewk) - (2) - Dec. 12, 2005, 10:01:12 AM EST
                                                         Yep. - (bepatient) - (1) - Dec. 12, 2005, 10:10:54 AM EST
                                                             Ronnie, walking around, would scare me too... - (hnick) - Dec. 12, 2005, 10:43:53 AM EST
                                             ICLRPD (new thread) - (ben_tilly) - Dec. 12, 2005, 11:44:56 AM EST
                                 Not accusing you. - (imqwerky) - Dec. 12, 2005, 05:43:18 PM EST
                             More like: Freud (pronounced: "fraud") - (jb4) - Dec. 12, 2005, 01:32:36 PM EST
         Just saying "I think it's science"... - (pwhysall) - (2) - Dec. 4, 2005, 02:59:26 AM EST
             ID ain't Physics. It's Meta-Physics. - (ChrisR) - (1) - Dec. 12, 2005, 06:31:15 PM EST
                 \ufffdPrecisam\ufffdnte! - and before you start in that field - (Ashton) - Dec. 12, 2005, 08:24:44 PM EST
         intelligent design: the agenda - (rcareaga) - (5) - Dec. 5, 2005, 09:22:50 PM EST
             And around and around.. - (Ashton) - Dec. 5, 2005, 10:02:40 PM EST
             300 years after the Enlightenment and we still get this. -NT - (warmachine) - Dec. 6, 2005, 02:43:04 AM EST
             This crap pisses me off - (Silverlock) - (2) - Dec. 6, 2005, 02:03:15 PM EST
                 religion is an opiate for the sociopaths? probably -NT - (boxley) - (1) - Dec. 6, 2005, 03:31:32 PM EST
                     Not just sociopaths, everybody ;0) - (mmoffitt) - Dec. 7, 2005, 08:47:01 AM EST
         I'm not persuaded. 47 kB .img - (Another Scott) - Dec. 6, 2005, 03:45:09 PM EST
         God-Man\ufffd explains finally.. how it works - (Ashton) - (1) - Dec. 8, 2005, 03:39:26 AM EST
             I like the non sequitor version better - (boxley) - Dec. 8, 2005, 05:49:48 PM EST

Just playing with your LRPD addiction...
172 ms