No, GM

Post #228,743 by tonytib 10/9/05 12:42:12 AM Reply	No, GM Ford is always Ford, throughout the world (not counting companies they bought, of course, like Aston Martin, Land Rover, Volvo). In Europe GM uses Vauxhall and Adam Opel AG. They're starting to use the Chevrolet brand worldwide (I remember seeing Chevrolet ads for rebadged Opels in Thailand). Tony
Post #228,751 by Meerkat 10/9/05 3:17:47 AM Reply	Speaking of rebadging I guess it matters not a jot to the rest of the world, but anyway. We now have Daewoos rebadged as Holdens. (Holden being GM's Australian company). So now you can buy a Holden that's a Daewoo (the Kalos now the Barina), a Holden that's a Suzuki (the Cruze which is a 4WD Ignis), and a Holden that's an Opel (The Vectra). At least the Holden Commodore is mostly Australian designed and manufactured. I think it shares it front door panels with the Opel Senator, or something. Doing things the other way, at least our Monaro (which is basically a 2-door Commodore) goes to the UK (as a Vauxhall) and the US (as the Pontiac GTO). Always willing to bore folk to tears with excessive Australian motor industry minutiae, John. Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #228,760 by CRConrad 10/9/05 10:46:31 AM Reply	OK, so Australia is the exception. In the rest of the world, Daewoos are Chevrolets nowadays. And no, I don't think the Commodore was originally very Australian-designed -- I think everything down to the name was originally taken from the Opel Commodore. Dropping a V8 into it may have been at least partly an original Oz contribution, though... But given that this was most probably, at least to begin with, the world-famous 1950s-vintage Chevy Smallblock... That's not all that original, either. [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #228,854 by Meerkat 10/10/05 8:10:15 AM Reply	On Commodores (pointless Holden geekery ensues) The Holden Commodore has been around since 1978, but in three major shapes. The [link\|http://www.carshowcase.org/wallpaper/Holden/VB03.jpg\|VB Commodore] (1978-1988) was almost the spitting image of the [link\|http://www.soulweb.com/winterfloh/anzeigen/bilder/opel-rekord.jpg\|Opel Rekord] of the time. It had the Rekord body, but Australian engine / transmission / suspension. It was almost unrecognisable four facelifts later when the [link\|http://www.rarespares.net.au/rare_spares/gallery/customer_car_images/vl-commodore_tmasters.jpg\| VL model] was launched in 1986. In 1988 the [link\|http://www.carshowcase.org/wallpaper/Holden/VN02.jpg\|VN model was launched]. Based on an [link\|http://auto.nonstop.com.ua/fotos/big/721.jpg\|Opel Senator] body, but widened by a few inches. Engine was the GM 3.8 V6 as found in lots of Buicks I believe. Three facelifts later and it ended looking like this - [link\|http://www.smasa.com.au/documents/archives/2002/pictures/visitors_cars/daniels_vs_commodore.jpg\| the rather nice-looking VS]. Next up, the [link\|http://www.carshowcase.org/wallpaper/Holden/VT07.jpg\|VT model] which stole the front door panels off another Opel (probably the Senator again) but I think the rest of Australian designed. Two facelifts later, the last of the line is the current model, the [link\|http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/vz/images/vz-acc-05.jpg\| VZ]. There we go. Thanks for bearing with me. Should you ever visit Australia, you'll be able to hold your own when the discussion around the BBQ turns to Holdens. As it inevitably does... Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #229,135 by Ashton 10/11/05 4:14:58 PM Reply	Verrry Eenteresting - US-(not-so)-Wise: In 1988 the VN model was launched. Based on an Opel Senator body, but widened by a few inches. The original Ford Bronco was killing people in roll-overs .. finally CU (Consumer Reports - a pretty unbiased, if not always techno-clever local testing org) - with pix and scathing prose: blew whistle. Law suits - Naahhhh it ain't tippy! Why we designed it for Rugged InduhVidjalists, etc. Etc. N-years later they did widen the sucker, shortly before retiring it - for its Deserved shitty reputation in that and other areas of M$-grade innovation. (as CU and anyone with 8th grade geometry had Suggested as Fucking Obvious.) Clearly: youse auslanders need to put up with a tad les Dumbth+greed?.. than lies at the black Heart of Our di$civilization :-)
Post #229,258 by Meerkat 10/12/05 7:01:57 AM Reply	This was all about shoulder room The 1980's Commodore was narrower than the rival Ford Falcon, and it cost them tons of sales. I guess it was case of : Size Does Matter. So it wasn't about dumbth, but I guess it was about greed, in a way. Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #228,758 by CRConrad 10/9/05 10:21:55 AM Reply	Pretty much so, but not quite. GM Europe is also SAAB, so some of their models are rebadged Opels/Vauxhalls nowadays (9³=Vectra). I can't swear as to the Chevrolet-badged things you've seen in Thailand, but I suspect they're Daewoos, not Opels -- I think that's a global phenomenon. The Daewoo brand is dead, to be replaced by Chevrolet (badges on the same ex-Daewoo cars). OK, I admit, one Daewoo/Chevrolet model looks quite suspiciously much like the previous-generation Opel/Vauxhall Astra, so in that way you could claim it's a rebadged Opel; twice-rebadged. (But that's pretty much SOP, I gather: At each generation-change, the old tools get shipped off to some far east manufacturer.) [link\|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode\|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.) Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575\|Ashton Brown]
Post #228,798 by tonytib 10/9/05 7:34:17 PM Reply	Saab was a much later pickup that why I didn't think about them, although it's true recently they have become much more integrated into GM (e.g. selling rebadged GM SUVs and Subarus). And, for Thailand, it looks like it's mostly not Daewoos. Check out [link\|http://www.gm.com/company/corp_info/global_operations/asia_pacific/thai.html\|http://www.gm.com/co...pacific/thai.html] Tony Whose favorite car in Thailand (not counting Tuk-tuk) is the Nissan Wingroad.
Post #228,952 by tuberculosis 10/10/05 3:41:36 PM Reply	Pity about that - I loved Saabs but dislike GM. Hope is GM doesn't monkey with a good thing. But I'm not holding out that hope. "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #229,045 by Meerkat 10/11/05 7:51:32 AM Reply	Nope, don't hold out. Behold [link\|http://www.azcentral.com/class/marketplace/cars/0612wheels12saabintro.html\|the Saabaru]. Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
Post #229,052 by Another Scott 10/11/05 8:45:00 AM Reply	Soon to be the Subayota? [link\|http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/06/business/06place.html\|General Motors Plans to Sell Its Stake in Subaru's Parent]. The Fuji sale will complicate plans for Saab. One of Saab's five models, the Saab 9-2x, is essentially a Subaru made over to look like a Saab, though it is not a big seller. G.M. had planned to develop a Saab version of Subaru's B9 Tribeca, a seven-passenger vehicle known as a crossover because it combines elements of an S.U.V. and a car. The vehicle had been anticipated by Saab dealers. "We at Saab are looking for a seven-passenger vehicle, and that was a seven-passenger vehicle," said Steve Coleman, the owner of Saab of Santa Ana in California and a member of Saab's national council of dealers. Mr. Coleman said he found out about the sale in a conference call that G.M. had with the council. Tom Beaman, a spokesman for Saab, said the company would still find a way to develop a seven-passenger crossover vehicle. "Saab is extremely important to G.M. because it is our only premium European brand," he said, adding that it brought customers "into G.M. who we otherwise wouldn't have." A Toyota executive said his company would develop and produce vehicles with Subaru, which could provide some measure of help to Toyota in reaching its American sales goals. At a news conference in Japan, Mitsuo Kinoshita, a Toyota executive vice president, said his company would also use Fuji's "various advanced technologies." Cheers, Scott.
Post #229,101 by tuberculosis 10/11/05 12:20:35 PM Reply	Ick "Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" --Mark Twain "The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." --Albert Einstein "This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses." --George W. Bush
Post #229,116 by bepatient 10/11/05 1:43:02 PM Reply	You might say ick... ...but the [link\|http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/impreza_wrx_sti.asp\|WRX] is an awesome little auto. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #229,427 by pwhysall 10/13/05 4:29:30 AM Reply	Has become a chav-chariot over here. Pity, really; superb handling and performance, only slightly marred by being really rather ugly. The chav upgrade of choice on these things is a stupid fart-cannon of an exhaust. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #229,223 by static 10/11/05 10:21:19 PM Reply	Makes me sorta glad... ... that we've stuck with such Aussie brands as Mitsubishi (my Lancer) and Nissan (wife's X-Trail). Er, hang on... ;-P Wade. d-_-b
Post #229,142 by Ashton 10/11/05 4:32:55 PM Reply	'Saab' is dead At least re any remote association with.. the basically 'aircraft engineers' who began with that 3 cyl. 2-stroke engined critter, parlayed it into the Monte Carlos (still ugly but bloody Functional) and to the more conventional looking ('69) 99 models and their derivatives. Swedish engineers Loved 'Us' (as breathing creatures, that is) - and it showed in many engr. qualities. (I owned 5 Saabs; last a '77 GL == along with Volvo that year: the first production cars with the Lambda-Sond emissions controls as are now universal. That system had never needed a single part replaced, either -- when I gave it away in '01.) It still runs, but now has a bum ignition switch as is non-trivial to fix - part of anti-theft, etc.. Its fate is unclear at this point - being a State away. My local Expert (aircraft mechanic + Saab) informs me of the creeping.. = now galloping GMism / inaccessibility for repairs and the like. Seems to moi just an echo of embrace, extend, extinguish. Loose a Billy-virus and .. .. GM engineers? - OK their boss-MBAs natch, some still snot-nosed: love Balance Sheets and corner offices and demographics. (But still can't get the formula right.) I'd take a new Saab as a gift, of course. Then sell it.
Post #229,428 by pwhysall 10/13/05 4:30:18 AM Reply	Saab 93 == Vauxhall Vectra And that's NOT a good thing. Peter [link\|http://www.no2id.net/\|Don't Let The Terrorists Win] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #229,430 by CRConrad 10/13/05 4:45:46 AM Reply	(As pointed out in post #228758.)

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