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New Vauxhall Astra 1.6i "Design" Automatic
What a load of crap.

After driving this thing for six and a half hours in traffic varying from free-flowing to stationary (A1 northbound on a Friday afternoon equals lots of queuing), I can say without doubt that my prejudices against automatic gearboxes stand unchallenged. Late upshifts and truly shitty downshifts made driving this thing an exercise in frustration.

Never mind the crap interior, over-powerful power steering (thus robbing you of any feedback), ill-balanced brakes which make it far too easy to stand the car on its nose every time you touch the pedal, the useless "Sport" button (makes the car louder but not faster), the silly electronic indicators, et cetera, et cetera.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
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New Condolences.
I'll bet you'll be happy when you're done with your business travel, won't you?

:-(

Cheers,
Scott.
New If you want to feel the road...
perhaps you should drive a [link|http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2005/fancy-mini-driving-p1.php|mini]. :-P

Cheers
Ben

PS I got this from bepatient at [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=228672|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=228672]
I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Expand Edited by ben_tilly Oct. 8, 2005, 01:38:40 AM EDT
New Typical BMW driver looking down upon the masses... :)
We don't get the 1.6 here but all reviews of the 1.8 (which we do get) mention how the performance is nothing to write home about. So a 1.6 would be ... scary.

The SRi/VXR/whatever one - the super duper turbo 3 door one sounds fun - if only because it has way more power than the front wheel can ever hope to contain. Eek.
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
New Oh, I see I didn't mention the torque-steer.
Also not fun at 90+MPH.

Front-wheel drive might be cheap, but it's crap.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
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New Says the man who was sooo happy with his FWD Megane...
...until he got his RWD poseurmobile.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New Riiiight.
1. It was a Laguna, not a Megane.
2. I was happy when it went forward to work, rather than to the garage, Renault spares prices being what they are. I was never particularly taken with the handling, which can best be described as "easy" rather than "nice".
3. People who drive classic Saabs are not in a position to discuss "poseurmobiles". Sorry for buying a decent car. Inverted snobbery is still snobbery.[0]

Apart from that, you're dead right.
[0]And if I'd wanted a poseurmobile, I'd have plumped for an E30 M3 or an Impreza or a Quattro or an RS Turbo or an MR2 or a Supra or... Well. Not a 318 Compact, that's for sure. (All those cars were in my price range)


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
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New *cough*
Gauntlet cast. Gantlet to be Run, then -

Front-wheel drive might be cheap, but it's crap.
Do you often tease the local Christians with upside-down crucifixes in that 12th bottle of Bletchley Extra-Dark?

I Loves glittering chestnuts like That. OOooooh .oO0Oo.
Or, to quote a Famous Orator of the Age, Bring. It. On..!

Ya wants tight twisties? - then beyond other considerations will be:
short wheelbase, with merely the boring checklist which creates decent 'handling', quite a number of ways.

Ya wants straight line Fast? - start with decent airflow shape coefficient,
plug in lots of
HP = 1.21 [MV]/t
and adjust to velocity desired.
Ho hum - Railton Special meets the 123 mph 125cc Lambretta
streamlined 'scooter' of ~'52. (MUCH faster.. later)

Ah but.. If what ya want is civilized transport,
effortless cruise beyond the Ton
(while still able to enjoy Nakarikov on the Cee Dee ~~ in-between playing boy racer ~~ in the swoops),
+ near enough theoretical-G braking and adequate control through swervery
== commensurate with a longish wheelbase:
Then: your Apples/Uglis nonsense converges on the idea of
-->\ufffd a GT.

A Gran Turismo
(and not just the plastic boot-tag on some cheesy Pontiac barge: the idea they stole the badger from.)

So, what's it gonna be, Punk?
(did I fire 5? or 6 rounds ..) Are ya feelin Lucky? ..Punk?


Swervery? Straight line? Civilized with a proper blend? ___ Other?

Now, on *this* edge of (a different and Bigger Pond) we calls yer over-hyped Yuppie Canoes, Boring Marin Wheels. For cause.

[Marin County, a stoned-throw from here: where new Styles in conspicuous consumption are clawed out of the piles of (gold dust in congealed Grand Marnier) every day:
the archetype for nothing-exceeds-like-excess.
Say, a BMW UAV? with mink seatcovers over the ex-Ricardo Montalban Cor-dob-an leather]

ie Mine's Cheaper (well, it was 8 yo when I got it - and still mint, and, based on adequate data -- it is very likely capable of 300K US-miles before retirement / any major thing like engine/trans rebuild == 2/3 to go..)

My Acura Plutocrat (Maybe Honda Inspire? in the hinterlands) will 0ut-GT Yours.
Oh, though incidentally - Mine's Bigger.
But just on the inside/outside: it drives impressively small-sized.

Health of My kidneys, liver, serenity-at-end of Long-day @ 90-110 - will exceed Thine.

And all with a mere 2.5 L, 5 cylinders and 28 mi/US gal if kept under 80ish/130 kph.
Top end (limiter) ~ 132/220 kph; a bit more, sans. ie

RWD is.. just.. so Fashionably \ufffd Retro \ufffd .. donchaknow?
Like, say, The New Mustang? - cha cha cha



New *cough*. "Fine Cor-IN-thian Leather!"
New {cackle} ... yeah well.. who needs ackyouracy re___Ads!

New BMW UAV?
You mean the wretched X3 and X5? I place them on the same pile of pointlessness as the Porsche Cayenne and its ilk.

Large, annoying, and prevents drivers of normal shaped/sized vehicles from seeing right at roundabouts; all you see is slab side and 19" alloy wheel, instead of traffic.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
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New Vauxhall is another word for FORD, isn't it?
Not sure, but you pretty well described the Ford trademark handling - way overpowerful (twitchy) power steering and shitty gearing. Floaty suspension also.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New No, GM
Ford is always Ford, throughout the world (not counting companies they bought, of course, like Aston Martin, Land Rover, Volvo).

In Europe GM uses Vauxhall and Adam Opel AG. They're starting to use the Chevrolet brand worldwide (I remember seeing Chevrolet ads for rebadged Opels in Thailand).

Tony
New Speaking of rebadging
I guess it matters not a jot to the rest of the world, but anyway.

We now have Daewoos rebadged as Holdens. (Holden being GM's Australian company). So now you can buy a Holden that's a Daewoo (the Kalos now the Barina), a Holden that's a Suzuki (the Cruze which is a 4WD Ignis), and a Holden that's an Opel (The Vectra).

At least the Holden Commodore is mostly Australian designed and manufactured. I think it shares it front door panels with the Opel Senator, or something.

Doing things the other way, at least our Monaro (which is basically a 2-door Commodore) goes to the UK (as a Vauxhall) and the US (as the Pontiac GTO).

Always willing to bore folk to tears with excessive Australian motor industry minutiae,
John.
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
New OK, so Australia is the exception.
In the rest of the world, Daewoos are Chevrolets nowadays.

And no, I don't think the Commodore was originally very Australian-designed -- I think everything down to the name was originally taken from the Opel Commodore. Dropping a V8 into it may have been at least partly an original Oz contribution, though... But given that this was most probably, at least to begin with, the world-famous 1950s-vintage Chevy Smallblock... That's not all that original, either.


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New On Commodores (pointless Holden geekery ensues)
The Holden Commodore has been around since 1978, but in three major shapes.

The [link|http://www.carshowcase.org/wallpaper/Holden/VB03.jpg|VB Commodore] (1978-1988) was almost the spitting image of the [link|http://www.soulweb.com/winterfloh/anzeigen/bilder/opel-rekord.jpg|Opel Rekord] of the time. It had the Rekord body, but Australian engine / transmission / suspension.
It was almost unrecognisable four facelifts later when the [link|http://www.rarespares.net.au/rare_spares/gallery/customer_car_images/vl-commodore_tmasters.jpg| VL model] was launched in 1986.

In 1988 the [link|http://www.carshowcase.org/wallpaper/Holden/VN02.jpg|VN model was launched]. Based on an [link|http://auto.nonstop.com.ua/fotos/big/721.jpg|Opel Senator] body, but widened by a few inches. Engine was the GM 3.8 V6 as found in lots of Buicks I believe. Three facelifts later and it ended looking like this - [link|http://www.smasa.com.au/documents/archives/2002/pictures/visitors_cars/daniels_vs_commodore.jpg| the rather nice-looking VS].

Next up, the [link|http://www.carshowcase.org/wallpaper/Holden/VT07.jpg|VT model] which stole the front door panels off another Opel (probably the Senator again) but I think the rest of Australian designed. Two facelifts later, the last of the line is the current model, the [link|http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/vz/images/vz-acc-05.jpg| VZ].

There we go. Thanks for bearing with me. Should you ever visit Australia, you'll be able to hold your own when the discussion around the BBQ turns to Holdens. As it inevitably does...




Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
New Verrry Eenteresting - US-(not-so)-Wise:
In 1988 the VN model was launched. Based on an Opel Senator body, but widened by a few inches.
The original Ford Bronco was killing people in roll-overs .. finally CU (Consumer Reports - a pretty unbiased, if not always techno-clever local testing org) - with pix and scathing prose: blew whistle.

Law suits - Naahhhh it ain't tippy! Why we designed it for Rugged InduhVidjalists, etc. Etc.

N-years later they did widen the sucker, shortly before retiring it - for its Deserved shitty reputation in that and other areas of M$-grade innovation.
(as CU and anyone with 8th grade geometry had Suggested as Fucking Obvious.)

Clearly: youse auslanders need to put up with a tad les Dumbth+greed?.. than lies at the black Heart of Our di$civilization :-)

New This was all about shoulder room
The 1980's Commodore was narrower than the rival Ford Falcon, and it cost them tons of sales. I guess it was case of : Size Does Matter.

So it wasn't about dumbth, but I guess it was about greed, in a way.
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
New Pretty much so, but not quite.
GM Europe is also SAAB, so some of their models are rebadged Opels/Vauxhalls nowadays (93=Vectra).

I can't swear as to the Chevrolet-badged things you've seen in Thailand, but I suspect they're Daewoos, not Opels -- I think that's a global phenomenon. The Daewoo brand is dead, to be replaced by Chevrolet (badges on the same ex-Daewoo cars). OK, I admit, one Daewoo/Chevrolet model looks quite suspiciously much like the previous-generation Opel/Vauxhall Astra, so in that way you could claim it's a rebadged Opel; twice-rebadged. (But that's pretty much SOP, I gather: At each generation-change, the old tools get shipped off to some far east manufacturer.)


   [link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad]
(I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
New Saab was a much later pickup
that why I didn't think about them, although it's true recently they have become much more integrated into GM (e.g. selling rebadged GM SUVs and Subarus).

And, for Thailand, it looks like it's mostly not Daewoos. Check out [link|http://www.gm.com/company/corp_info/global_operations/asia_pacific/thai.html|http://www.gm.com/co...pacific/thai.html]

Tony
Whose favorite car in Thailand (not counting Tuk-tuk) is the Nissan Wingroad.
New Pity about that - I loved Saabs
but dislike GM. Hope is GM doesn't monkey with a good thing. But I'm not holding out that hope.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Nope, don't hold out.
Behold [link|http://www.azcentral.com/class/marketplace/cars/0612wheels12saabintro.html|the Saabaru].
Two out of three people wonder where the other one is.
New Soon to be the Subayota?
[link|http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/06/business/06place.html|General Motors Plans to Sell Its Stake in Subaru's Parent].

The Fuji sale will complicate plans for Saab. One of Saab's five models, the Saab 9-2x, is essentially a Subaru made over to look like a Saab, though it is not a big seller. G.M. had planned to develop a Saab version of Subaru's B9 Tribeca, a seven-passenger vehicle known as a crossover because it combines elements of an S.U.V. and a car. The vehicle had been anticipated by Saab dealers.

"We at Saab are looking for a seven-passenger vehicle, and that was a seven-passenger vehicle," said Steve Coleman, the owner of Saab of Santa Ana in California and a member of Saab's national council of dealers. Mr. Coleman said he found out about the sale in a conference call that G.M. had with the council.

Tom Beaman, a spokesman for Saab, said the company would still find a way to develop a seven-passenger crossover vehicle.

"Saab is extremely important to G.M. because it is our only premium European brand," he said, adding that it brought customers "into G.M. who we otherwise wouldn't have."

A Toyota executive said his company would develop and produce vehicles with Subaru, which could provide some measure of help to Toyota in reaching its American sales goals. At a news conference in Japan, Mitsuo Kinoshita, a Toyota executive vice president, said his company would also use Fuji's "various advanced technologies."


Cheers,
Scott.
New Ick



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New You might say ick...
...but the [link|http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/impreza_wrx_sti.asp|WRX] is an awesome little auto.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Has become a chav-chariot over here.
Pity, really; superb handling and performance, only slightly marred by being really rather ugly. The chav upgrade of choice on these things is a stupid fart-cannon of an exhaust.


Peter
[link|http://www.no2id.net/|Don't Let The Terrorists Win]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
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Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
New Makes me sorta glad...
... that we've stuck with such Aussie brands as Mitsubishi (my Lancer) and Nissan (wife's X-Trail). Er, hang on... ;-P

Wade.
d-_-b
New 'Saab' is dead
At least re any remote association with.. the basically 'aircraft engineers' who began with that 3 cyl. 2-stroke engined critter, parlayed it into the Monte Carlos (still ugly but bloody Functional) and to the more conventional looking ('69) 99 models and their derivatives. Swedish engineers Loved 'Us' (as breathing creatures, that is) - and it showed in many engr. qualities.

(I owned 5 Saabs; last a '77 GL == along with Volvo that year: the first production cars with the Lambda-Sond emissions controls as are now universal. That system had never needed a single part replaced, either -- when I gave it away in '01.) It still runs, but now has a bum ignition switch as is non-trivial to fix - part of anti-theft, etc.. Its fate is unclear at this point - being a State away.

My local Expert (aircraft mechanic + Saab) informs me of the creeping.. = now galloping GMism / inaccessibility for repairs and the like. Seems to moi just an echo of embrace, extend, extinguish. Loose a Billy-virus and .. ..

GM engineers? - OK their boss-MBAs natch, some still snot-nosed: love Balance Sheets and corner offices and demographics. (But still can't get the formula right.) I'd take a new Saab as a gift, of course.


Then sell it.

New Saab 93 == Vauxhall Vectra
And that's NOT a good thing.


Peter
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New (As pointed out in post #228758.)
     Vauxhall Astra 1.6i "Design" Automatic - (pwhysall) - (29)
         Condolences. - (Another Scott)
         If you want to feel the road... - (ben_tilly)
         Typical BMW driver looking down upon the masses... :) - (Meerkat) - (7)
             Oh, I see I didn't mention the torque-steer. - (pwhysall) - (6)
                 Says the man who was sooo happy with his FWD Megane... - (CRConrad) - (1)
                     Riiiight. - (pwhysall)
                 *cough* - (Ashton) - (3)
                     *cough*. "Fine Cor-IN-thian Leather!" -NT - (Another Scott) - (1)
                         {cackle} ... yeah well.. who needs ackyouracy re___Ads! -NT - (Ashton)
                     BMW UAV? - (pwhysall)
         Vauxhall is another word for FORD, isn't it? - (tuberculosis) - (18)
             No, GM - (tonytib) - (17)
                 Speaking of rebadging - (Meerkat) - (4)
                     OK, so Australia is the exception. - (CRConrad) - (3)
                         On Commodores (pointless Holden geekery ensues) - (Meerkat) - (2)
                             Verrry Eenteresting - US-(not-so)-Wise: - (Ashton) - (1)
                                 This was all about shoulder room - (Meerkat)
                 Pretty much so, but not quite. - (CRConrad) - (11)
                     Saab was a much later pickup - (tonytib) - (10)
                         Pity about that - I loved Saabs - (tuberculosis) - (9)
                             Nope, don't hold out. - (Meerkat) - (5)
                                 Soon to be the Subayota? - (Another Scott)
                                 Ick -NT - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                     You might say ick... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                         Has become a chav-chariot over here. - (pwhysall)
                                 Makes me sorta glad... - (static)
                             'Saab' is dead - (Ashton) - (2)
                                 Saab 93 == Vauxhall Vectra - (pwhysall) - (1)
                                     (As pointed out in post #228758.) -NT - (CRConrad)

"I couldn't have done it without him, sir."

"Cheek."
95 ms