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New Interesting viewpoint
What makes Clinton so different is their continued press birage caasting them as "victims of this vast right-wing conspiricy".

It seems to have worked.

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Umm.. your point here eludes me.
You said:
The press and opposition are just as targetted and generally quite a bit more mean spirited in their analysis of this President.


My point was that this is the first time either the press or the opposition has even gotten in his face, even a little.

Clinton had supporters, opposition, and a functioning press corps. If he wasn't such a spineless chickenshit, he would have gone down in history as a great president. That he managed to pull defeat out of the very jaws of victory was his own doing, not the press or opposition. So I'm not sure where you are going with:

What makes Clinton so different is their continued press birage caasting them as "victims of this vast right-wing conspiricy".


But then I could just be dense. It's been said before...
New Single example
NAACP and activist leadership are very public in comparing this President to Hitler. (They are not alone, as I have read similar articles in the WSJ and the Phila Inq) (Further note: Some reports even go further with the quip that "Bush can't be compered to Hitler cause Hitler gave better speeches".)

So, when easked to speak before them, he declines.

For which he is essentially branded a racist in the press in op/eds of supporters of these organizations.

His staff, like Colin Powell have been branded "house slaves" by the likes of Harry "Day-O" Bellafonte because no person of color could actually be a conservative.

Same party line has been used here. He has appointed people of race, gender and color to more positions of authority that any President in history, yet he is vilified as "not caring about black people" on telethons and later these rediculous viewpoints are defended here and in the press.

If I believe the media, Bush is stupid, drug/alcohol addicted, racist, murderous, et al.

Yep, sure seems like he's getting a free ride.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New So to cut to the quick:
Everything the Berk does is OK, because somebody may have done somthing similar before.

Good. How very convenient that you can set the bar so artifically low, then heap praise on this "administration for deigning to rais a tootsie to appear to step over it.

You're in the wrong business, BeeP. You need a job in the whitehouse press sec'ys office. You're almost at good at parroting the Berk's bullshit as [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=223722|McClellan]; I'm sure with some "training" you could even surpass him.
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Not so fast fella
What started this was "someone" saying that this President has gotten a free pass compared to Clinton. (aka there was a new doublestandard)

That statement was BS and I am simply pointing that statement out as BS.

But because I don't fall quickly into line with the party line here, the kneejerk (I don't think we ever invented that kneejerk emoticon, did we?) reaction is that this equates to a defense of Bush.

Wrong keejerk reaction.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New re: kneejerk reaction emoticon
how about ")<" or maybe "j<"


(For obvious reasons, I like the latter better ;-) )
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Hmm
That'll have to do

j< it is
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Wait a minute...
What started this was "someone" saying that this President has gotten a free pass compared to Clinton. (aka there was a new doublestandard)

That statement was BS and I am simply pointing that statement out as BS.


I'm the guy who make the comparison and you haven't done/pointed out diddly.

Comparison to Hitler are nice, but I can point out Rush's "America held hostage" and Communist Clinton references all day long.

Neither or which addresses the issue that *I* brought up.

Feel free to point out a single conservative host that has blasted Bush for stopping life-saving operations so he could tour the area.
New Joe Scarborough



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:47:44 PM EDT
New Actually
you have to translate Ashtonese to get the "doublestandard" point. And the point was that general media was giving the free pass, not "conservative hosts"...who you should damn well know up front are gonna bias in favor of a Repo leader.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Ok...
I can't speak to the NAACP since I don't pay much attention to them. Their issues aren't mine and they don't seem to be a physical threat to me, so I pretty much filter them. They did good work in the past, but now I pretty much regard them as yet another special interest group. They do not seem to be part of his 'base', and he doesn't seem to like to talk to people who disagree with him. As far as the Hitler comparison, any dictatorial figure who supports government of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations would work. You may admit that he doesn't take disagreement well and he likes rich corporations better than mainstream or poor people. He has the empathy of a turnip.

I believe that he is being branded racist in blogs and fringe publications. Until quite recently, the mainstream press has sucked him off more than Monica ever did for Willie.

As far as divirsity, putting incompetents in positions of authority for political reasons is not necessarily a good thing. Promoting Condi after being a screwup as National Security Advisor is political or stupid. Take your pick. Colin Powell was pretty much neutralized when he strayed from the party line. Placing people because it looks good or they contribute a lot to a campaign fund is damaging to the country he's sworn to support.

He's probably not stupid, but he does appear to be one of the most intellectually lazy people in public service. One of his major achievments does appear to be that he he is no longer an obnoxious drunk, so don't worry about that one. Murderous? Lot of people are dead who don't need to be to further his ambitions. Murder? Manslaughter? Causing death while not giving a fuck? What's in a word?

Considerig what could have been said, or even what could have been asked, yes, he's gotten a free ride for the last 5 years. That's just my opinion, of course.
New your idea of a free ride
after a raped and beaten woman is spotted by a trucker who stops to help, she explains her plight and he starts taking off his belt saying "I guess this aint your lucky day" thats what your free ride sounds like.
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New That made as much sense as usual :)
New with you it all depends on who is riding :-)
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Nah... don't like any of them
New Oh - you mean like this ride?
Wanna be rescued? [link|http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46160|Show us your tits!]



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:43:00 PM EDT
New wouldnt need to be rescued
already have my plans for when I retired to Pass Christian or therabouts. Maybe they should have taken steps to protect themselves prior to the storm like buying water and food to stock their hotel rooms
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New I hope this is as accurate as most worldnutdaily stuff.
bcnu,
Mikem

It would seem, therefore, that the three human impulses embodied in religion are fear, conceit, and hatred. The purpose of religion, one might say, is to give an air of respectibility to these passions. -- Bertrand Russell
New Ged? So mom & dad were LeGuin (Wizard of Earthsea) fans, eh?
New Re: Ok...
I believe that he is being branded racist in blogs and fringe publications. Until quite recently, the mainstream press has sucked him off more than Monica ever did for Willie.


Since when did talk radio become the mainstream press?

As long as I can remember, newspapers were mainstream as well. Major net news was mainstream.,,but newsprint moreseo because it is by and large the source for the major networks "breaking stories"

All I see here is Rush this, Hannity that, fox news this...and these statements then used to defend a position that "mainstream media is <insert whatever blah here>" (not you specifically...just a noticeable overall trend)



If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Was thinking more of the Cleveland Plain Dealer
which I read daily before I moved and various on line news mags. What I saw there was a parroting of what ever news release was handed to them and a complete lack of critical analysis. It was very rare that anybody critisized Bush off the OpEd pages. Reporting has been either fawning or "The president said blah blah blah". Having reporters ask questions has, until recently, been a lost art. The state of the free press is worth an entire tirade in itself. Which I'm not up for at this time...

I don't think I've ever heard Rush and I don't watch Fox news. Since we stopped getting movie channels, my TV time is down to a few hours a month. I've never really considered TV news jounalism. That just me.
New Re: Was thinking more of the Cleveland Plain Dealer
Ouch. As a veteran of reading that paper, I'd have to agree. But I don't know if their staff is capable of critical analysis either. I hated that paper.

Philly Inq, NYT. LA Times, etc..all qualify...and you can get them online too :-)
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New NAACP is not the press
Press has been off the job for 5 years. I'm pleased to see them waking up and asking the hard questions. Why is Brown heading FEMA? What about fixing coordination of services to disaster/attacks that was promised post 9/11? Not only did bubble boy give away the top jobs like party favors to his friends, but he dismantled the previously effective FEMA while blowing our rainy day fund on a stupid war that didn't need fighting.

This entire administration is all about politics and not at all about planning and execution and now its becoming really obvious.

These people belong in jail for derelection of duty and fraud.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:42:57 PM EDT
New why was hurricane relief by fema in florida so good?
brown was running that effort as well wasnt he? So they can be efficient when needed. What was the actual disconnect this time? I expect because he didnt have Jeb and George sending rockets up his ass.

thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Simple...
Florida voted for Bush. NO voted largely for Kerry.

/me dux
No, it's not that simple... probably...
New so brown must be vanal rather than unqualified,
pick one story and stick with it :-)
thanx,
bill
"the reason people don't buy conspiracy theories is that they think conspiracy means everyone is on the same program. Thats not how it works. Everybody has a different program. They just all want the same guy dead. Socrates was a gadfly, but I bet he took time out to screw somebodies wife" Gus Vitelli

Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 49 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Who says that has to be an exclusive OR?
He can be both. In fact, he ca be stupid, venal, and under order from "above" to go slow. That would make him stupid venal, unethical, and a puppet.


Hmmmm. Sound like anybody else we know?
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Just poor humor. I should have used the sign.
I flatly refuse to believe anybody would desert an important city 'cause they were miffed over voting records.
I believe in incompetence though. It comes in a lot of forms and inhabits all levels of bureaucracy. Plenty to go around for all to share.
New Why not try
there's no black or poor people in Florida?

It offers about the same level of discourse.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New You mean last year or eight years ago?
Eight years ago it was because FEMA was run by a competent manager James Lee Witt. Even Bush praised Witt in the 2000 presidential debates.

[link|http://slate.msn.com/id/2125224/|http://slate.msn.com/id/2125224/]

As for last year, somehow I suspect the president's brother knows how to hold his attention.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 12:43:38 PM EDT
New Last year was all about the election.
Regards,

-scott anderson

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson..."
New That reminds me of something I saw many years ago
up here. I went to a student demo on Parliament Hill in Ottawa (basically, that is like demonstrating on The Mall), wrt University Funding, which was getting cut drastically at that time as the government wrestled with the massive deficits we were carrying at the time (~40G$/ann). The Minister for Youth and Education came out to speak to the demonstrators. Now, here is a wildly hostile crowd; as soon as he appeared, students started throwing Kraft Dinner (known as "poverty food" up here) and eggs. He kept it together pretty well until the egg caught him in the centre of his forehead, at which point he stated his position about the necessities of balancing different funding priorities in (shall we say) no uncertain terms and left the stage.

The point being that there was no question whatsoever about him coming out to speak, regardless of the hostility of the crowd. It was his duty to do so, as he was speaking to a group of people who, as citizens, and as people at the centre of the sphere of his political responsibility, deserved to be faced and to hear an explanation of why they were paying three times the tuition that they'd been paying two years ago. If you go into politics, there are going to be times when you will have to face hostile audiences; it's part of the job.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Some things need to be fleshed out, I think.
Some in the press have attempted to go after Bush for many, many things.

Some examples:
1) His TANG service.
2) His "youthful indiscretions".
3) His tax cuts that "overwhelmingly benefited the rich".
4) His "faith-based initiative".
5) "No Child Left Behind".
6) "The jobless recovery".
7) Not being upfront about the cost of the Medicare Drug Benefit.
8) "Lying about Iraq".
9) Politicizing Teri Shiavo.
10) Politicizing stem cell research.
12) His Social Security "reform/privatization/destruction" plans.
13) Not meeting Sheehan.
14) Trade and budget deficits exploding.
15) "Destruction of the middle class and ignoring the poor to enrich the wealthy."
16) No coherent energy policy.
17) No sensible environmental policy.
18) Outing Valerie Plame.

And so forth. All of that was before the New Orleans fiasco which seemed to bring out the indignation in many of the TV news people. (I wonder how long that will last.) And those are all "mainstream" stories - not stuff only covered by Democracy Now or MoveOn.org.

The press isn't as monolithic as it was in 1968 when Cronkite could criticize the Vietnam War and have a big impact (but, IIRC, most people supported the war even after Tet).

My feeling is that most of the press is too focused on the latest scandal. They worry too much about polls and popularity. Even the big papers will only cover a story for a week or so before moving on to something else. It's impossible for me to imagine the weeks and months of coverage that Watergate got in the Post repeating these days. :-(

So you and Bill are both right. The press has been after Bush, and the press has let things slide with his administration too much. It depends on which part of the press you pay attention to and how much work you're willing to do to keep up with the story.

So, where you stand depends on where you sit.

IMHO.

Cheers,
Scott.
New The press has been after Bush sorta like
a Chihuahua goes after an intruder...lots of nipping and yipping, while a good strong kick sends it ass-over-teakettle.

Now that the Chihuahua has been replaced with a Doberman...
jb4
shrub●bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Too early to tell.
We've been here before.

The press gets wind of something.
They call the President on it.
The President spins it.
The press goes back to sleep.

Right now we're in the 'spin' stage - we'll see if this sticks.
When somebody asks you to trade your security for freedom, it isn't your freedom they're talking about.
     Facts and Rumors about the New Orleans response. - (Another Scott) - (58)
         The whitewash is unravelling. - (Simon_Jester) - (52)
             I'd forgotten that haircut - (Ashton) - (51)
                 Monica redux quip / Jon Stewart (new thread) - (Ashton)
                 Are you out of your mind? - (bepatient) - (49)
                     Quite a bit more mean spirited? - (hnick) - (35)
                         Interesting viewpoint - (bepatient) - (34)
                             Umm.. your point here eludes me. - (hnick) - (33)
                                 Single example - (bepatient) - (29)
                                     So to cut to the quick: - (jb4) - (6)
                                         Not so fast fella - (bepatient) - (5)
                                             re: kneejerk reaction emoticon - (jb4) - (1)
                                                 Hmm - (bepatient)
                                             Wait a minute... - (Simon_Jester) - (2)
                                                 Joe Scarborough -NT - (tuberculosis)
                                                 Actually - (bepatient)
                                     Ok... - (hnick) - (11)
                                         your idea of a free ride - (boxley) - (7)
                                             That made as much sense as usual :) -NT - (hnick) - (2)
                                                 with you it all depends on who is riding :-) -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                                     Nah... don't like any of them -NT - (hnick)
                                             Oh - you mean like this ride? - (tuberculosis) - (3)
                                                 wouldnt need to be rescued - (boxley)
                                                 I hope this is as accurate as most worldnutdaily stuff. -NT - (mmoffitt)
                                                 Ged? So mom & dad were LeGuin (Wizard of Earthsea) fans, eh? -NT - (CRConrad)
                                         Re: Ok... - (bepatient) - (2)
                                             Was thinking more of the Cleveland Plain Dealer - (hnick) - (1)
                                                 Re: Was thinking more of the Cleveland Plain Dealer - (bepatient)
                                     NAACP is not the press - (tuberculosis) - (8)
                                         why was hurricane relief by fema in florida so good? - (boxley) - (7)
                                             Simple... - (hnick) - (4)
                                                 so brown must be vanal rather than unqualified, - (boxley) - (2)
                                                     Who says that has to be an exclusive OR? - (jb4)
                                                     Just poor humor. I should have used the sign. - (hnick)
                                                 Why not try - (bepatient)
                                             You mean last year or eight years ago? - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                                 Last year was all about the election. -NT - (admin)
                                     That reminds me of something I saw many years ago - (jake123)
                                 Some things need to be fleshed out, I think. - (Another Scott) - (2)
                                     The press has been after Bush sorta like - (jb4) - (1)
                                         Too early to tell. - (inthane-chan)
                     Bush has had a free ride in at least one way - (ben_tilly)
                     Are you? - (Ashton) - (11)
                         Read a paper - (bepatient) - (10)
                             This too - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                 ICLRPD. (new thread) - (Another Scott)
                             Hey Mr. Stat- Man, play a Red Herring for me, for it's... - (Ashton) - (7)
                                 Well then - (bepatient) - (6)
                                     Toss ya a bone and you - (Ashton) - (5)
                                         *whack* - (bepatient) - (4)
                                             Well if ya buy 'Left'/Right' you'll love 'media' I guess -NT - (Ashton) - (2)
                                                 I tend to agree with Peter - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                     No no-it's "FAR righter" and "even MORE EXTREME right-wing". -NT - (CRConrad)
                                             Re: *whack* re Talk Radio - (Ashton)
         word is getting out - (cforde) - (4)
             I get a 404 error on the link -NT - (boxley) - (3)
                 It points here. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                     this is beinbg reported this morning on Fox News - (boxley)
                 apparently, some don't like their politics - (cforde)

Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!
893 ms