Re: scratching gnads and wondering

Just my opinion.

Your link says in the first paragraph:

The toppling of the Taliban may eventually prove to be the best thing to have happened in Afghanistan for a decade. But it was not an initial aim of the US-led war. In the wake of their departure from Kandahar, that point cannot be stressed enough, before the drumbeat of triumpalism deafens us all. Victory over the wrong opponent is not much of a victory. It sounds more like "collateral benefit" - provided we are sure the benefit outweighs the costs.

(Emphasis added)

Since the first paragraph of the story is wrong, I would be suspicious of the rest. It's quite easy to check these things from original sources.

What was the US's purpose? Let's see, in [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html|Bush's address] to the joint session of Congress on September 20 he said:

Americans have many questions tonight. Americans are asking: Who attacked our country? The evidence we have gathered all points to a collection of loosely affiliated terrorist organizations known as al Qaeda. They are the same murderers indicted for bombing American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, and responsible for bombing the USS Cole.

Al Qaeda is to terror what the mafia is to crime. But its goal is not making money; its goal is remaking the world -- and imposing its radical beliefs on people everywhere.

The terrorists practice a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics -- a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam. The terrorists' directive commands them to kill Christians and Jews, to kill all Americans, and make no distinction among military and civilians, including women and children.

This group and its leader -- a person named Osama bin Laden -- are linked to many other organizations in different countries, including the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan. There are thousands of these terrorists in more than 60 countries. They are recruited from their own nations and neighborhoods and brought to camps in places like Afghanistan, where they are trained in the tactics of terror. They are sent back to their homes or sent to hide in countries around the world to plot evil and destruction.

The leadership of al Qaeda has great influence in Afghanistan and supports the Taliban regime in controlling most of that country. In Afghanistan, we see al Qaeda's vision for the world.

Afghanistan's people have been brutalized -- many are starving and many have fled. Women are not allowed to attend school. You can be jailed for owning a television. Religion can be practiced only as their leaders dictate. A man can be jailed in Afghanistan if his beard is not long enough.

The United States respects the people of Afghanistan -- after all, we are currently its largest source of humanitarian aid -- but we condemn the Taliban regime. (Applause.) It is not only repressing its own people, it is threatening people everywhere by sponsoring and sheltering and supplying terrorists. By aiding and abetting murder, the Taliban regime is committing murder.

And tonight, the United States of America makes the following demands on the Taliban: Deliver to United States authorities all the leaders of al Qaeda who hide in your land. (Applause.) Release all foreign nationals, including American citizens, you have unjustly imprisoned. Protect foreign journalists, diplomats and aid workers in your country. Close immediately and permanently every terrorist training camp in Afghanistan, and hand over every terrorist, and every person in their support structure, to appropriate authorities. (Applause.) Give the United States full access to terrorist training camps, so we can make sure they are no longer operating.

These demands are not open to negotiation or discussion. (Applause.) The Taliban must act, and act immediately. They will hand over the terrorists, or they will share in their fate.

I think the speech, especially the last 3 cited paragraphs, is quite clear. And Bush's policy in Afghanistan it was clear very early on. The Taliban was going to be toppled if they didn't comply with the US demands. The author, Mr. Steele, is engaging in revisionism to state otherwise.

Cheers,
Scott.

It is interesting to me to see the time travel thru the colon examining the issues re colon cancer and delay. The fact that I see corn does not eliminate the benefits of having timely bowel movements,
I assume you havnt seen the tape of Osama and his buds discussing their pre knowledge of events. Does the side effect of our attacks on afghanistan preclude us from deriding any benefits of helping a wartorn nation heal itself? I think not. The excuse that lives taken by Americans are somehow worth less than those taken by fellow tribesmen is fallacious. A life is a life. Do we have a clue wether the deaths in Afghanland will help stop terrorism? Who cares, we helped a country breath again and our guilt will rebuild a self imposed mess. For that alone the world owes us nothing as usual.
thanx,
bill

Post #21,381 by TTC 12/13/01 5:12:59 PM Reply	Re: scratching gnads and wondering perhaps if you add in the perspective [link\|http://www.zmag.org/steelewrongwar.htm\|here], it might make better sense? Perhaps...
Post #21,386 by Another Scott 12/13/01 5:34:26 PM Reply	I think you need to find better sources. Just my opinion. Your link says in the first paragraph: The toppling of the Taliban may eventually prove to be the best thing to have happened in Afghanistan for a decade. But it was not an initial aim of the US-led war. In the wake of their departure from Kandahar, that point cannot be stressed enough, before the drumbeat of triumpalism deafens us all. Victory over the wrong opponent is not much of a victory. It sounds more like "collateral benefit" - provided we are sure the benefit outweighs the costs. (Emphasis added) Since the first paragraph of the story is wrong, I would be suspicious of the rest. It's quite easy to check these things from original sources. What was the US's purpose? Let's see, in [link\|http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2001/09/20010920-8.html\|Bush's address] to the joint session of Congress on September 20 he said: Americans have many questions tonight. Americans are asking: Who attacked our country? The evidence we have gathered all points to a collection of loosely affiliated terrorist organizations known as al Qaeda. They are the same murderers indicted for bombing American embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, and responsible for bombing the USS Cole. Al Qaeda is to terror what the mafia is to crime. But its goal is not making money; its goal is remaking the world -- and imposing its radical beliefs on people everywhere. The terrorists practice a fringe form of Islamic extremism that has been rejected by Muslim scholars and the vast majority of Muslim clerics -- a fringe movement that perverts the peaceful teachings of Islam. The terrorists' directive commands them to kill Christians and Jews, to kill all Americans, and make no distinction among military and civilians, including women and children. This group and its leader -- a person named Osama bin Laden -- are linked to many other organizations in different countries, including the Egyptian Islamic Jihad and the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan. There are thousands of these terrorists in more than 60 countries. They are recruited from their own nations and neighborhoods and brought to camps in places like Afghanistan, where they are trained in the tactics of terror. They are sent back to their homes or sent to hide in countries around the world to plot evil and destruction. The leadership of al Qaeda has great influence in Afghanistan and supports the Taliban regime in controlling most of that country. In Afghanistan, we see al Qaeda's vision for the world. Afghanistan's people have been brutalized -- many are starving and many have fled. Women are not allowed to attend school. You can be jailed for owning a television. Religion can be practiced only as their leaders dictate. A man can be jailed in Afghanistan if his beard is not long enough. The United States respects the people of Afghanistan -- after all, we are currently its largest source of humanitarian aid -- but we condemn the Taliban regime. (Applause.) It is not only repressing its own people, it is threatening people everywhere by sponsoring and sheltering and supplying terrorists. By aiding and abetting murder, the Taliban regime is committing murder. And tonight, the United States of America makes the following demands on the Taliban: Deliver to United States authorities all the leaders of al Qaeda who hide in your land. (Applause.) Release all foreign nationals, including American citizens, you have unjustly imprisoned. Protect foreign journalists, diplomats and aid workers in your country. Close immediately and permanently every terrorist training camp in Afghanistan, and hand over every terrorist, and every person in their support structure, to appropriate authorities. (Applause.) Give the United States full access to terrorist training camps, so we can make sure they are no longer operating. These demands are not open to negotiation or discussion. (Applause.) The Taliban must act, and act immediately. They will hand over the terrorists, or they will share in their fate. I think the speech, especially the last 3 cited paragraphs, is quite clear. And Bush's policy in Afghanistan it was clear very early on. The Taliban was going to be toppled if they didn't comply with the US demands. The author, Mr. Steele, is engaging in revisionism to state otherwise. Cheers, Scott.
Post #21,447 by boxley 12/14/01 12:12:35 AM Reply	much like me examining my dump for corn :) It is interesting to me to see the time travel thru the colon examining the issues re colon cancer and delay. The fact that I see corn does not eliminate the benefits of having timely bowel movements, I assume you havnt seen the tape of Osama and his buds discussing their pre knowledge of events. Does the side effect of our attacks on afghanistan preclude us from deriding any benefits of helping a wartorn nation heal itself? I think not. The excuse that lives taken by Americans are somehow worth less than those taken by fellow tribesmen is fallacious. A life is a life. Do we have a clue wether the deaths in Afghanland will help stop terrorism? Who cares, we helped a country breath again and our guilt will rebuild a self imposed mess. For that alone the world owes us nothing as usual. thanx, bill tshirt front "born to die before I get old" thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
Post #21,452 by inthane-chan 12/14/01 12:51:58 AM Reply	You know, that was need-to-know information... ...and I didn't need to know! EEEEEEEEEEWWWWW! "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Post #21,568 by boxley 12/14/01 11:46:08 PM Reply	there was a web site some where who tabulated those who looked, those who didnt and those who "examined" the evidence on the tp. Interesting reading. thanx, bill tshirt front "born to die before I get old" thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"

Welcome to IWETHEY!