Post #202,615
4/9/05 11:34:57 AM
|
An armed society
ends up in a lot of death, polite or otherwise.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #202,618
4/9/05 12:17:43 PM
|
and your point is?
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #202,622
4/9/05 1:37:19 PM
|
My point
is that one has to look carefully at the costs and benefits of a particular way of social organisation. An armed society may well be more polite. OTOH, it may not be; esp. to those members of it that are not armed, or armed less forcefully. Furthermore, even if if this is the case, you also have to look at the costs of having that many more people die, either intentionally or accidentally, as well as the costs of supporting those who end up injured and disabled. It's not like you can handwave those people away, all you need to do is to look at the statistics of jailed, killed, and injured and maimed by guns in your society vs. other societies that aren't armed.
I'm much happier living in an unarmed society. It keeps our murder rate down, and afaict hasn't had a deleterious affect on the politeness of my society.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #202,624
4/9/05 1:45:18 PM
|
well as long as you are satisfied
there is reasons I wont ever live there again.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #202,625
4/9/05 1:50:39 PM
|
Just like people shouldn't judge all of the US from east LA
people shouldn't judge all of Canada from Hochelaga either.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #202,644
4/9/05 5:25:25 PM
|
Hochelaga? whats that?
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #202,646
4/9/05 5:35:01 PM
|
Oops, sorry,
you lived down in Verdun, didn't you?
Hochelaga is a quartier in Montreal. It is now what Verdun was in the 70s. Lots of organised and disorganised crime there. St-Michel is another neighbourhood like that; the main difference is that the criminals in Hochelaga are French while the ones in St-Michel are ethnics.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #202,649
4/9/05 5:44:40 PM
|
lived in otterburn park, did gun shopping in verdun
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #202,650
4/9/05 5:45:58 PM
|
Was harder to get one for a while, and is easier now
However, the saying "when having a gun is a crime, only criminals will have guns" misses the point that it becomes a lot easier to tell who the criminals are.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #202,655
4/9/05 6:15:32 PM
|
thats yer other problem, turning ordinary folks
into criminals, speaking of the collective you, not you personally. Last time I visited that quaint country I had 3 court appearances in 3 weeks all due to nosy busybodies and theiving businessmen. I had to give my pistol to a local officer of the law as I was so disgusted I wanted to fly out instead of drive. He liked it, never having owned an automatic before.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #202,626
4/9/05 2:15:06 PM
|
And vs. societies that are fully armed?
No - because they have fewer problems of that sort than we do.
But it's easier to blame 'guns', isn't it.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #202,627
4/9/05 2:28:29 PM
|
Name a society that's fully armed.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #202,631
4/9/05 3:11:41 PM
|
Switzerland
Switzerland: naff all professional forces but a huge great milita.
Though I agree with you. Switzerland is a non-violent society whereas the USA is not. Guns and agression is a bad mixture.
Matthew Greet
But we must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assassin. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? They lie. They lie and we must be merciful to those who lie.
- Colonol Kurtz, Apocalypse Now.
|
Post #202,638
4/9/05 3:55:14 PM
|
Tell me, if you walk down the street in say Basel
how many people are packing? If they are packing, what are the penalties to them?
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #202,643
4/9/05 5:17:51 PM
|
Funny.
I'm far more worried about drunk drivers than people 'packing heat' on the street.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #202,647
4/9/05 5:36:27 PM
|
Me too
of course, part of the reason for that is because there isn't anybody packing heat on the street here.
How many people pack heat where you live?
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #202,695
4/10/05 12:02:45 PM
|
If they 'pack', they are obligated to initiate gunplay
Right?
The fact that I don't fear getting gunned down at all, but I do get nervous about irresponsible drivers should say SOMETHING to you.
I don't expect to change any minds - those that would save society from themselves by making law-abiding citizens more dependent on, and subject to, government rarely change their minds.
Most anti-gun nuts seem to believe that citizens can only be trusted if they are in service to the government.
I disagree, most emphatically.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #202,717
4/10/05 4:14:16 PM
|
I dunno
you guys manage to murder more than ten times the people than we do. We don't have guns all over the place. Coincidence?
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #202,735
4/10/05 6:17:04 PM
|
coverup on your side :-)
If one was to racially segregate the murders down here you ould a find a closer match to your whitebread statistics up north.
thanx,
bill
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #202,874
4/11/05 1:04:20 PM
|
Not anymore
as has been pointed out recently, whites are already a minority in Vancouver, and will be within another five or so years in Toronto. Even Montreal is on the verge of losing its "French majority" status as the tete-carrees, allos, and ethnics will outnumber the French in that city quite soon. Not only that, but between those three cities you're talking about 25%-30% of the population of Canada right there.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
|
Post #202,658
4/9/05 6:47:06 PM
|
Very few
IIRC, the guns are rifles given as part of their militia duties. They don't wonder the streets with them. I don't know about gun crime penalties. The Swiss see their rifles as a defence against invading, foreign powers. Switzerland is a polite society. The US have a different reason for guns, ownership is high and doubt anyone regards the USA as a polite society. You can guess which nation I think doesn't need looser gun control.
Matthew Greet
But we must kill them. We must incinerate them. Pig after pig, cow after cow, village after village, army after army. And they call me an assassin. What do you call it when the assassins accuse the assassin? They lie. They lie and we must be merciful to those who lie.
- Colonol Kurtz, Apocalypse Now.
|
Post #202,949
4/12/05 1:01:06 AM
|
Ah, but that's different
AFAIK they're issued with their weapons and a certain amount of ammunition, and they have to keep them locked up in government-certified lockers and be able to produce the gun plus the issued amount of ammunition, for inspection, on demand.
It's a weapon issued for national defence, not personal defence.
Peter
[link|http://www.ubuntulinux.org|Ubuntu Linux]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Home]
Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
|
Post #202,866
4/11/05 12:12:56 PM
|
Miller, 1938.
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #202,891
4/11/05 3:32:58 PM
|
so you admit the USSC is always right?
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #203,074
4/12/05 5:51:19 PM
|
Nope. But it does go to show that ...
even a blind squirrel finds the acorn once in a while ;0)
bcnu,
Mikem
Eine Leute. Eine Welt. Ein F\ufffdhrer.
God Bless America.
|
Post #203,097
4/12/05 10:35:52 PM
|
nah, picken choose the ones you like
All tribal myths are true, for a given value of "true" Terry Pratchett
[link|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/|http://boxleys.blogspot.com/]
Any opinions expressed by me are mine alone, posted from my home computer, on my own time as a free american and do not reflect the opinions of any person or company that I have had professional relations with in the past 48 years. meep
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
|
Post #202,894
4/11/05 4:00:26 PM
|
*shrug* deny that fully armed societies exist all you want.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #202,968
4/12/05 5:29:59 AM
|
OK - if you'll deny
that:
the mindset created by a perceived need to be armed - is the penultimate self-fulfilling prophecy, evidenced (here, and now) by the hideously Popular thus boringly predictable Murican 'entertainment' -- consisting of slo-mo macros of dismembered bodies, plethoras of shoot-em-up games; thus altogether demonstrating a massive preoccupation with violence to psyche and body.
aka What A Way to Live!
Deal?
|
Post #202,974
4/12/05 7:07:24 AM
|
I don't deny
that Hollywood has 'taught' us that heros and villians can get shot dozens of times and still shrug off bullets.
I don't deny that personal responsibility has been damaged by over-litigation.
I do deny that guns are bad for citzens to have. I do deny that there is a need to abrogate even more power (and a fundumental right) from law-abiding citizens of ths country.
I do deny that the vast majority of responsible gun-owners should be punished for the actions of a small minority.
I assert that the gun-issue is over-played because it makes exciting news (see: Hollywood).
I do deny that anti-gun nuts 'know what's good for us'.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #202,997
4/12/05 9:56:00 AM
|
But do you also deny...
...that the pro gun nuts 'know what's good for us'?
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #203,004
4/12/05 10:19:24 AM
|
I deny that they force ANYONE
to purchase, carry, or keep a gun. Anti-gun nuts want to force their ideology on everyone. They rationalize their behavior by citing the actions of a tiny minority to justify actions against the majority of law-abiding gun owners.
Hey, if the anti-gun nuts want to effect social change so that nobody wants them, fine, go ahead and try. Nobody is trying to abridge their right to free speech. Oh wait, they have tried propaganda to do that, and they have so far failed. That's why they work so hard to enact confiscatory laws - laws abridging the US citizen's right to keep and bear arms.
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #203,010
4/12/05 11:06:05 AM
|
BUY THAT GUN ER ELSE, PARDNER!
funny mental picture...noone else here will get it...but it made me laugh.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition
[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
|
Post #203,023
4/12/05 12:59:15 PM
|
What's the name of the GA town that...
... required all townspeople to possess a firearm within the city limits? Oh yeah...[link|http://www.kennesaw.ga.us/CodeOfOrdinances.aspx|Kenessaw GA] (Google is your friend): Sec. 34-1 Heads of households to maintain firearms.
(a) In order to provide for the emergency management of the City, and further in order to provide for and protect the safety, security and general welfare of the city and its inhabitants, every head of household residing in the City limits is required to maintain a firearm, together with ammunition therefore.
(b) Exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who suffer a physical or mental disability, which would prohibit them from using such a firearm. Further exempt from the effect of this section are those heads of households who are paupers or who conscientiously oppose maintaining firearms as a result of beliefs or religious doctrine, or persons convicted of a felony. I dunno, Skip...does this qualify? jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT
|
Post #203,036
4/12/05 1:39:53 PM
|
ROFL... Forgot about them.
Don't know if I approve of that law on anything more than amusement value, though. It verges on "Anything not required is prohibited, anything not prohibited is required".
[link|http://www.runningworks.com|
] Imric's Tips for Living
- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
|
Nothing is as simple as it seems in the beginning,
As hopeless as it seems in the middle,
Or as finished as it seems in the end.
|
|
Post #203,025
4/12/05 1:02:44 PM
|
Actually there was one town out in KY
several years ago that required all males to own at least one gun. Research: actually the one I was thinking of was in Georgia... The small town of Gueda Springs, Kansas, has no local police force. For self protection, the city council has passed an ordinance that with few exceptions, requires homeowners to keep guns:
[...]
The ordinance is not the first in the country. Kennesaw, Georgia passed a similar law 21 years ago--and it's still in force.
[link|http://talkleft.com/new_archives/004451.html| TalkLeft ]
|
Post #203,147
4/13/05 6:09:51 AM
|
I may change my mind, too as the New Taliban cement their
positions. Trotskyite Taliban - nice ring to it?
[Note: USSC looking to create a new Security Org for THEIR own fucking survival! This in Today, as the beat goes on, or is that a dirge? over the muffled bass drum.]
But that next usage won't erase the rich history of violence which has made the over-the-Top violent language all-along.. as Murican as apple pie and sexual dysfuction/obsession: our continuing tribute to All Those Puritans.
(Remember: we Needed! the muskets, blunderbusses early-on - to off the owner/inhabitants who Got In Our Way\ufffd.) We be Family! here, even before those imports from Italy cleaned up the organizing.
Gun-love was instrumental in destroying that kinda-almost-Republic; maybe they can help reclaim it. Or maybe they'll just be a means for us Losers to pick off a few goose-steppers - once the uniforms are passed out?
You Be Da Judge [ie Duck! if you ARE one]
|
