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New Oh, come ON already
We know how you feel about any language whose name starts with the letter C, but let's get on about it, OK? (Especially when helping someone...)

C, written in the early '70s far antedated even foreign computing. When the ANSI C standard was ratified in 1989, UNICODE was only a glimmer in the eyes of its designers. Nonetheless, C still had given it some thought, with the advent of locale-specific functions and so on. Remember, that the state of the art then was Latin-n and JIS and Shift-JIS. (Who cared about China? It was so backwards, it'd never get on board with ubiquitous computing.)

Well, then came the internet, and damn if talking to and between non-Latin-character-writing folks became important. So did C++. C++ defines as part of its standard the ability to determine locales via facets, and defined the wchar_t type specifically for handling the (then) two-byte code points of the nascent UNICODE and other wide-character encoding schemes that were becomeing more widely used. That's why, as you pointed out, "If you are working in C++, you just use the string object and the right things happen". That wouldn't be the case if those xenophobic white men had behaved in the way you described, now would it?

And no, they did not update the existing legacy C library to explicitly maintain backwards compatibility. Right decision? I dunno...but since there is a workaround, it seems like an OK choice at this point.


[Edit: Fixed typos so the 2nd paragraph made some sense]

jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

Collapse Edited by jb4 March 25, 2005, 02:20:51 PM EST
Oh, come ON already
We know how you feel about any language whose name starts with the letter C, but let's get on about it, OK? (Especially when helping someone...)

C, written in the early '70s far antedated even foreign computing. When the ANSI Cstandard was ratified in 1989, UNICODE was only a glimmer in the eyes of its designers. Nonetheless, C still had given it some thought, with the advent of locale-specific functions ad so on. Remember, that the state of the are then was Latin-n and JIS and Shift-JIS. (Who cared about China? It was so backwards, it'd never get on board with ubiquitous computing.)

Well, then came the internet, and damn if talking to and between non-Latin-character-writing folks became important. So did C++. C++ defines as part of its standard the ability to determine locales via facets, and defined the wchar_t type specifically for handling the (then) two-byte code points of the nascent UNICODE and other wide-character encoding schemes that were becomeing more widely used. That's why, as you pointed out, "If you are working in C++, you just use the string object and the right things happen". That wouldn't be the case if those xenophobic white men had behaved in the way you described, now would it?

And no, they did not update the existing legacy C library to explicitly maintain backwards compatibility. Right decision? I dunno...but since there is a workaround, it seems like an OK choice at this point.
jb4
shrub•bish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New The C++ standard i18n library is awful
ICU is MUCH better and easier to use.

C++ designers have gone off the deep end of the complexity curve.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Dont know ICU
but I will agree that the C++ library complexity is...well, high.
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New ICLRPD (new thread)
Created as new thread #200886 titled [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=200886|ICLRPD]
===

Purveyor of Doc Hope's [link|http://DocHope.com|fresh-baked dog biscuits and pet treats].
[link|http://DocHope.com|http://DocHope.com]
New You can find it here
[link|http://www-306.ibm.com/software/globalization/icu/index.jsp|http://www-306.ibm.c...ion/icu/index.jsp]

Incidentally, NextStep had a fully compliant unicode string object for Objective C from the beginning (1990-ish).

What is C++'s excuse? Particularly given that its creator was a European? Definitely short sighted tunnel vision.



"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
New Time line?
Would you give me the time line of NextStep and its evil twin Objective C vs that of C++?

I think you'll find the answer there....
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

New Released in 1988
I recall buying a copy of NextWorld #1 (from the MacWorld people) while working for a little Mac utilities company in Boulder in 1990 and showing it around the office.

Unicode from the beginning I'm told (I started working with them in 1997).




"Whenever you find you are on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect"   --Mark Twain

"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them."   --Albert Einstein

"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty and potential mental losses."   --George W. Bush
     What the heck is text? - (systems) - (56)
         It depends on the context. - (Another Scott) - (2)
             Unicode and ASCII - (StevenYap) - (1)
                 Re: Unicode and ASCII - Nitpick II - (jb4)
         you are confusing text with display - (boxley) - (12)
             Uhhh..Not quite, Bill - (jb4) - (11)
                 And that is one thing that sucks about Unicode - (ben_tilly) - (9)
                     At least they're consistent - (jb4) - (8)
                         But it is a problem - (ben_tilly)
                         Except for that full width/half width ascii thing - (tuberculosis) - (5)
                             I dunno... - (jb4)
                             My personal take on it - (jake123) - (3)
                                 Perhaps, but it makes searching tricky - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                     Well, if it was an easy problem - (jake123)
                                     ICLRPD (new thread) - (jb4)
                         Have you all seen the HUGE unicode poster? - (FuManChu)
                 close enough to debug a table entry :-) - (boxley)
         Text is not as simple as it seems - (ben_tilly)
         This is one thing that Java handles pretty well - (bluke)
         Rule #1 - Everything you think you know is wrong - (tuberculosis) - (29)
             Why xenophobic? - (drewk) - (28)
                 Because they didn't think... - (pwhysall)
                 Because if they had spent any time at all - (tuberculosis) - (25)
                     Now how about addressing my example - (drewk) - (17)
                         The best explanation that I've seen of why 2 digits... - (ben_tilly)
                         No, but they were xenophobic etc - (jake123) - (15)
                             xenophobic's probably the wrong word - (SpiceWare) - (14)
                                 Yeah, you're right - (jake123) - (13)
                                     How about "escessively humble"? - (drewk) - (4)
                                         Look, the point about the two digits for a year is well - (jake123) - (1)
                                             Disagree - (jb4)
                                         Maybe... - (tuberculosis) - (1)
                                             How about simply "provincial". - (a6l6e6x)
                                     The people who coded for teletypes and green terminals - (Arkadiy) - (7)
                                         Yes, a typographer - (jake123) - (3)
                                             Internationalization would not have been so easy - (ben_tilly)
                                             Text layout in 80 by 24 grid of monspaced font? - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                                 Phone books back then - (jake123)
                                         Please don't use the letter "e" in your code. - (pwhysall) - (2)
                                             I certainly used to do without "e" - (Arkadiy)
                                             I couldn't use "e" either ... - (JimWeirich)
                     Oh, come ON already - (jb4) - (6)
                         The C++ standard i18n library is awful - (tuberculosis) - (5)
                             Dont know ICU - (jb4) - (4)
                                 ICLRPD (new thread) - (drewk)
                                 You can find it here - (tuberculosis) - (2)
                                     Time line? - (jb4) - (1)
                                         Released in 1988 - (tuberculosis)
                 Actually, Algol 68 was designed from the ground up - (Arkadiy)
         Re: What the heck is text? - (JayMehaffey) - (3)
             I must correct you - ASCII is a 7-bit encoding - (tuberculosis)
             Whoa, there. - (ubernostrum) - (1)
                 Your right mostly - (JayMehaffey)
         Using a pencil, it's unambiguous. -NT - (mmoffitt) - (3)
             You haven't seen my handwriting.... -NT - (Another Scott) - (2)
                 Uh-oh. I wouldn't confess that ;0) - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                     My father's handwriting was so bad... - (broomberg)

CCTBRRDS!
158 ms