tell me Ben

Post #192,312 by lincoln 1/30/05 10:21:37 PM Reply	tell me Ben_Tilly have you ever been in a debate where you DIDN'Treword everything, at every opportunity, to be twisted to favor only your way of (and I use this word loosely) thinking? Results are not the same as intent. Hey, I got a great idea: why don't you police all of the Usenet groups and hound the people who POST files that you think violate copyright? That ought to keep you busy for a while. lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #192,315 by broomberg 1/30/05 10:36:02 PM Reply	I find myself in a difficult position Lincoln bitches about not have access to alt.binary. Some people here jump to the conclusion that Lincoln will be using the desired access to violate copyright. Lincoln comes back with a variety of 1/2 assed responses, analogies, etc, none which are convincing, but it seems the core point has been missed. Innocent until proven guilty. Note the word "proven". If there is ANY legal usage of such groups, than the assumption must be made that they will be used legally. So from my point of view, the correct response to all accusers should be: Fuck off and die. Hey Linc: You win. You don't need to explain anything.
Post #192,316 by lincoln 1/30/05 10:57:16 PM Reply	I'm arguning "A" and they're arguing "B" My point was "intent" - I don't specifically intend to violate copyright and, as I'm sure you aware of, not everything posted in those groups are violations of copyright. They're arguing the "result" - downloading some files from some groups are violations of copyright which I haven't denied in any way shape or form. There are many files posted which aren't available anywhere else, even after Googling for them. Amazon doesn't sell everything, right? So, according to certain IWETHEYers, to avoid violating copyright I must deny myself access to some files until such time that they *MAY* become available by the copyright holders, even if that DOESN'Toccur within my lifetime. lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #192,319 by Another Scott 1/30/05 11:13:42 PM Reply	Hey, this is Flame Quarantine. No logic allowed. And anyway, you're wrong. Peter was the first to make the comment about copyright. But, if one looks at the [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=190349\|post] in question one also sees: Anyway, Usenet is so 1996. BitTorrent, baby :-) He amplifies on that suggestion later in the thread. Lincoln getting upset about what others say they think he does or doesn't do with alt.binaries...., and others arguing about copyright infringement or lack thereof, doesn't change the fact that he doesn't have access to the alt.binaries newsgroups. Peter suggested a way around that problem with linc's current ISP even if they don't change their policies. A helpful suggestion from a limey. Will wonders ever cease? Being piled on isn't much fun. Being able to detect irony and humor is a good skill to have, too. Let's put away the flame-throwers and 50-caliber hollow-point bullets dipped in pigs blood for a while, OK? My $0.02. Cheers, Scott.
Post #192,330 by ben_tilly 1/31/05 12:11:26 AM Reply	You'll note that this is not a court And we are under no obligation to make stupid assumptions. As Jim said, while it is theoretically possible to haunt alt.binarys.* without violating copyrights, it is bloody unlikely. Furthermore Lincoln has pretty directly admitted that he does violate copyrights, and knows that he violates copyrights, the only point that he's trying to argue is whether his repeated violation of copyrights is intentional or not. Cheers, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #192,332 by n3jja 1/31/05 12:33:48 AM Reply	And he already knows the answer to that. He just won't give it up.
Post #192,890 by lincoln 2/3/05 2:08:01 PM 2/3/05 2:08:31 PM Reply	Neither will Ben_Tilly Tho for the life of me I can't figure why he's being so fucking anal about. lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me] Edited by lincoln Feb. 3, 2005, 02:08:31 PM EST Expand All History
Post #192,944 by n3jja 2/3/05 9:54:54 PM Reply	I'm thinking of three words.... Pot... Kettle.....Black....
Post #192,947 by folkert 2/3/05 10:10:09 PM Reply	meself, Two vessels and a color; Pot, Kettle, Day-Glo Orange -- [link\|mailto:greg@gregfolkert.net\|greg], [link\|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry\|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] @ *i_wethey* [link\|http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=134485&cid=11233230\|"Microsoft Security" is an even better oxymoron than "Miltary Intelligence"] No matter how much Microsoft supporters whine about how Linux and other operating systems have just as many bugs as their operating systems do, the bottom line is that the serious, gut-wrenching problems happen on Windows, not on Linux, not on Mac OS. -- [link\|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1622086,00.asp\|source]
Post #192,329 by ben_tilly 1/31/05 12:07:06 AM Reply	Of course I have As for your stupid suggestion, you mistake me for someone who cares about whether you're violating copyright. I don't. I merely dislike hypocrisy on the topic. I also dislike watching people who are apparently intelligent and over 15 substituting wish-fulfilment for logic. Sincerely, Ben I have come to believe that idealism without discipline is a quick road to disaster, while discipline without idealism is pointless. -- Aaron Ward (my brother)
Post #192,891 by lincoln 2/3/05 2:12:30 PM Reply	There you go again since you refuse to see the distinction between intent and the act, and refuse to admit it, you're refusing to leave your wish-fulfillment fantasy viewpoint. My analogy stands even if you're not intelligent enough, or have the balls, to accept it. lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #192,899 by pwhysall 2/3/05 2:45:32 PM Reply	The distinction between the intent and the act... ...is the difference between manslaughter and murder. The one tends to incur a sentence of five or so years; the other tends to incur a life sentence. But then, you're a fucking idiot, so you wouldn't be able to make that distinction. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!
Post #193,253 by lincoln 2/6/05 3:49:25 PM Reply	And you're an arrogant limesucker [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=191498\|I made that distinction perfectly clear here] which you so willfully ignore. BTW - Here it is, almost one week later, and I'm still waiting for you to come up with a better analogy, since you didn't like mine. lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #193,256 by pwhysall 2/6/05 3:54:02 PM Reply	Didn't we establish that you're an idiot? Yes, I think we did. See, your act cannot be committed without the intent. Sorry, but if you download something you know to be copyrighted without the consent of the copyright holder, then you intend to violate that copyright. It's intrinsic to the act. Your crappy analogy has no such intrinsic intent component. You may now fuck off. Peter [link\|http://www.ubuntulinux.org\|Ubuntu Linux] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Home] Use P2P for legitimate purposes!

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