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New Re: OK I think we have a platform here
>1) (Actually) reform campaign financing - even in the face of massively financed lobbying against any such thing.

One thing that I never could understand is folks are totally pissed off when there's financing from corps/countries over US's politics, but no one really speaks out abt US arbituarily selecting who should rule other countries.

Witness Afghanistan right now. Because the current ruling government refuses to turn over OBL without any proof (that's another thread), the US is assisting the NA to take over the country.

???
New reread the treaty of the high seas
as well as the history of war against the pirates (afgans landlock is no excuse) and the history of the indonesians, malays moros, Japan vs Korea, China vs British (HONG CONG) china vs mongols etc.
thanx,
bill
tshirt front "born to die before I get old"
thshirt back "fscked another one didnja?"
New Correction...
...we do not want the NA to take power.

And just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean there is not proof. Something must have been offered to the leaders of the major members of the coalition that convinced them that this was the correct course.

Just think...the French government is still in support. That would take proof...considering they wouldn't even return a convicted murderer to the US because they thought convicting him in absentia was "bad form"...even though there was ample proof of guilt.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Re: Correction...
>...we do not want the NA to take power

That's not how it appeared, and it appears now that the NA has taken power.

>And just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean there is not proof. Something must have been offered to the leaders of the major members of the coalition that convinced them that this was the correct course.

Like I said, that's another thread... don't want to get into that... but it seems quite a number of folks share the opinion that the US should have "conceded" to the Taliban's request to produce proofs and THEN will the US have the moral high ground when it then went ahead to attack the Taliben. I share that opinion too.

>Just think...the French government is still in support. That would take proof...considering they wouldn't even return a convicted murderer to the US because they thought convicting him in absentia was "bad form"...even though there was ample proof of guilt.

That's relatively easy. It's NOT them that's at the receiving end, no? :)
New I don't think we're interested in "moral high ground"
And neither are the Taliban. And if, by chance, the Taliban were shown proof (the debate over its existence aside), they would have rejected it (naturally) and the intelligence sources used to gather that proof would have been forever compromised.

Sorry...in war...which this is...I don't think trading strategic info for moral high ground is a very good idea.
You were born...and so you're free...so Happy Birthday! Laurie Anderson

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Re: I don't think we're interested in "moral high ground"
BP, I hope you understand what I'm trying to get here.

I've never defended the terrorists' action. Nor do I support any nation that "harbour" terrorists and "support" terrorism KNOWINGLY. I believe folks with sanity will probably have the same stance.

What we differ in is the way things are being handled, or rather mishandled.

9/11 was a tragedy.

However, a little introspective will reveal that such a tragedy was one that was waiting to happen in view of US foreign policy, past and present. Justifiable, no. To be expected, yes.

After the 9/11, the US could have had a legitimate WAR against terrorism. Instead, it has become a "hand over OBL or we'll bomb you, fuck the proofs" "terrorist action" in the eyes of many. Almost every nation denounced terrorism. Whether they are paying lips service or not, we won't know. Is the US really against terrorism itself if it wasn't the victim?

Nevertheless, many "allies" in this war are allies because they can't afford to be in the "against US" category, economically and militarily. So are they victims of terrorism? "You're with us, or you are with the terrorists" (and you know what we will do to the terrorists, don't you?)

And then, the biggest irony of all, the US "ally" itself with the NA, a bunch of looters and rapists no less, which is at war with the then-ruling regime in their civil war, thus again ignoring the sovereignty of another nation and propping up the US-preferred faction.

So does the end justify the means? How really different is the US from the terrorists of 9/11?
     Alternative views - (TTC) - (55)
         Thanks! Mother lode... and Molly Ivins too - - (Ashton)
         Re: Alternative views - (TTC) - (1)
             Fine link this one - (boxley)
         "Marginalized views" would be a more appropriate title. - (marlowe) - (51)
             The point you don't get... - (inthane-chan) - (50)
                 Close enough, Thane-san.. close enough. - (Ashton) - (49)
                     I'm not betting on it. - (Brandioch) - (47)
                         Just what would you suggest be done? - (screamer) - (46)
                             Covered in another thread. - (Brandioch) - (30)
                                 But when we try >that<... - (bepatient) - (28)
                                     No quarrel with that list - (Ashton)
                                     WTO? - (Brandioch) - (26)
                                         Exploitation vs. Protectionism - (ChrisR) - (23)
                                             Well said. -NT - (Another Scott)
                                             Develop local businesses. - (Brandioch) - (21)
                                                 Catch 22 - (bepatient) - (20)
                                                     Easy answer. - (Brandioch) - (19)
                                                         Re: Easy answer. - (bepatient) - (18)
                                                             Exploitation vs development. - (Brandioch) - (17)
                                                                 Re: Exploitation vs development. - (bepatient) - (16)
                                                                     Pattern recognition time, again.. - (Ashton) - (15)
                                                                         Keep up... - (bepatient) - (14)
                                                                             OK I think we have a platform here - (Ashton) - (8)
                                                                                 Wow... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                     Yes, bad association: *The Nothing Party* it is! - (Ashton)
                                                                                 Re: OK I think we have a platform here - (TTC) - (5)
                                                                                     reread the treaty of the high seas - (boxley)
                                                                                     Correction... - (bepatient) - (3)
                                                                                         Re: Correction... - (TTC) - (2)
                                                                                             I don't think we're interested in "moral high ground" - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                                                                 Re: I don't think we're interested in "moral high ground" - (TTC)
                                                                             Re: Keep up... - (wharris2) - (3)
                                                                                 Great.... - (bepatient) - (2)
                                                                                     I was kind. - (wharris2) - (1)
                                                                                         Thanks -NT - (bepatient)
                                                                             point of order - (boxley)
                                         I think it's dangerous... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
                                             Thanks UK for the term, 'sticky wicket' :( -NT - (Ashton)
                                 You'll get no argument here... - (screamer)
                             Re: Just what would you suggest be done? - (TTC) - (4)
                                 Simple... - (screamer)
                                 Your country shrugs at massive civvy deaths ]:-> - (boxley) - (1)
                                     Right to Life, Bill.. Sacredness of Life. - (Ashton)
                                 Fundamental flaw here. - (Ashton)
                             You say that as if it were SO OBVIOUSLY a good thing. - (CRConrad) - (9)
                                 What are *you* babbling about? - (wharris2) - (1)
                                     Oh yeah, sorry, I forgot - (CRConrad)
                                 CRC - My European nemesis... - (screamer) - (6)
                                     "Quote just a tad further down in same post"? No effing fun! - (CRConrad) - (5)
                                         Stop it! Stop it! - (Ashton)
                                         Well Da was a shop steward UAW, Eddie Burns his left hand - (boxley) - (2)
                                             Why don't you go back where you came from :-) - (screamer) - (1)
                                                 workin on it :) -NT - (boxley)
                                         I'll raise your meese and ... - (screamer)
                     I'm not betting on it. - (Brandioch)

You've got a lot of repressed feelings, don't you?
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