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New Thank you...
I will remember Wesley Pruden's name from now on.


What happened on September 11, he told the students, wouldn't surprise anyone as erudite as he is, because, well, America had it coming. The 5,000 innocents murdered on that day of infamy were paying the debt that America owes to the past. This is similar to the thoughtless remarks of the Revs. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson (who had the decency to apologize and clarify), except that Mr. Clinton inserted a different set of villains. We're all guilty, stupid.

"Here in the United States," he said, "we were founded as a nation that practiced slavery, and slaves quite frequently were killed even though they were innocent. This country once looked the other way when a significant number of Native Americans were dispossessed and killed to get their land or their mineral rights or because they were thought of as less than fully human. And we are still paying the price today."


Interesting. [link|http://www.georgetown.edu/admin/publicaffairs/protocol_events/events/clinton_glf110701.htm| Here's ] his speech according to Georgetown.


First, we have to win the fight we are in and in that I urge you to keep three things in mind. First of all, terror, the killing of noncombatants for economic, political, or religious reasons has a very long history as long as organized combat itself, and yet, it has never succeeded as a military strategy standing on its own, but it has been around a long time. Those of us who come from various European lineages are not blameless. Indeed, in the first Crusade, when the Christian soldiers took Jerusalem, they first burned a synagogue with 300 Jews in it, and proceeded to kill every woman and child who was Muslim on the Temple mound. The contemporaneous descriptions of the event describe soldiers walking on the Temple mound, a holy place to Christians, with blood running up to their knees. I can tell you that that story is still being told to today in the Middle East and we are still paying for it. Here in the United States, we were founded as a nation that practiced slavery and slaves were, quite frequently, killed even though they were innocent. This country once looked the other way when significant numbers of Native Americans were dispossessed and killed to get their land or their mineral rights or because they were thought of as less than fully human and we are still paying the price today. Even in the 20th century in America people were terrorized or killed because of their race. And even today, though we have continued to walk, sometimes to stumble, in the right direction, we still have the occasional hate crime rooted in race, religion, or sexual orientation. So terror has a long history.

The second point I want to make is, in that long history, no terrorist campaign standing on its own has ever won, and conventional military strategies that have included terrorism with it have won because of conventional military power, and terrorism has normally been a negative. I will just give you one example from my childhood. In the Civil War, General Sherman waged a brilliant military campaign to cut through the South and go to Atlanta. It was significant and very helpful in bringing the Civil War to a close in a way to, thank God, save the Union. On the way, General Sherman practiced a relatively mild form of terrorism-he did not kill civilians, but he burned all the farms and then he burned Atlanta, trying to break the spirit of the Confederates. It had nothing whatever to do with winning the Civil War, but it was a story that was told for a hundred years later, and prevented America from coming together as we might otherwise have done. When I was a boy growing up in the segregated South, when we should have been thinking about how we were going to integrate the schools and give people equal opportunity, people were making excuses for unconscionable behavior by talking about what Sherman had done a hundred years ago. So, it is important to remember that normally terrorism has backfired and never has it succeeded on its own.


New Followup - by the Washington Times...

President Clinton is saying two things: First, that terror is a centuries-old tactic whose use has long-lasting implications; second, the United States is not unblemished when it comes to abuses of the human spirit and freedom. This is a far cry from acknowledging that the United States is to blame for Sept. 11.

[...]

It is not a great speech. Many of the policy recommendations he makes are flawed. And he diminishes what is good through several typically self-congratulatory points about events over which reasonable people do differ.

[...]

But President Clinton also states: "The terrorists killed people who came to America not to die, but dream, from every continent, from dozens of countries, most every religion on the face of the earth, including in large numbers Islam." This is a correct and profoundly moving statement.

While it is sensible to always parse a Bill Clinton speech down to the last comma, in this case he is getting a bum rap.


[link|http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/09112001-015809-2387r.htm| source ]
New thank You.
I wasn't willing to parse it for him. Good that you did.

My supposition is that, by now it is possible for most people who want to: to separate out a (perhaps unfamiliar and certainly uncomfortable) re-view, that famous 20/20 hindsight - of US actions in neighboring countries and elsewhere.

It is hardly a record of rapine and pillage, quite more the opposite - but with many naive and some stupid errors of judgment. Some of those caused such egregious harm as in Chile, and our complicity in the killing of Allende. Then there were the Contras: Freedom Fighters to a Patriot-Reagan; terrorists to those murdered by them and with our assistance. More and mere fucking with language. Keep it black & white for the simplistic minded, but things rarely are other than.. *grey*, with tissues of overlapping 'interests' and scheming and - agitprop for the masses on all multi-sides.

None (or all?) of these activities came close to the mass murder of thousands of 'pure civilians' as was 9/11. Calling that tit-for-tat is malevolent hyperbole, not of the same class as trying to face some of the sources of others' discontent with our periodic ignorant or even ugly behavior.

Power *does* corrupt and we are not immune from that 'law'. I'd settle for our simply recognizing generally: that indeed we do screw up, have screwed up and.. will again. It is human and it's a Gaussian - not White hats / Black hats nearly so often as our internal propaganda would ever portray any event.

Anyway.. to take Clinton's words out of context as being some "justification for 9/11" is at the juvenile rant level of a Rush and a Drudge - suitable for children you want to warp into little conspiracy theorists. But it makes adults puke.


A.
     Undead horse watch - (marlowe) - (30)
         NYC revival? He's on the job. - (marlowe)
         Clinton regrets not plunging us into disaster more promptly. - (marlowe)
         Only carrion watch dead horses. -NT - (Ashton) - (2)
             Err.. Carrion *eaters*... but yeah... -NT - (hnick) - (1)
                 Yes of course.. dazzled by The Reg's logo. :-\ufffd -NT - (Ashton)
         Clinton comes out and blames America for 911! - (marlowe) - (19)
             Clinton comes out and blames Clinton for 9/11! - (rsf) - (2)
                 About that point 3 - (marlowe) - (1)
                     I know - (rsf)
             If that's all you got out of that all.. - (Ashton) - (1)
                 Don't bother. It is a waste of time. -NT - (ben_tilly)
             Wash. Times take on the infamous speech. - (marlowe) - (13)
                 OK, I'm about done replying to your "juicy" jingoistic crap. - (Ashton) - (9)
                     latest skank report! did she lie? her lips are moving! :) - (boxley) - (8)
                         Solution: never tell a journalist *anything* 24/7. -NT - (Ashton) - (7)
                             OT you have experience with waveforms right? - (boxley) - (6)
                                 Don't know enough. - (Ashton) - (3)
                                     The idea is what the feds are asking help with - (boxley) - (2)
                                         I can appreciate the utility.. - (Ashton) - (1)
                                             how I would approach the problem - (boxley)
                                 It's a tough problem. - (Another Scott)
                                 Probably only generally - (ben_tilly)
                 Thank you... - (Simon_Jester) - (2)
                     Followup - by the Washington Times... - (Simon_Jester)
                     thank You. - (Ashton)
         Presidential underdog breaks same old ground. - (marlowe)
         Ed: The Clinton Team\ufffds Betrayal - (marlowe)
         Ed: Clinton, leave well -- and bad -- enough alone - (marlowe) - (2)
             Not really possible, is it... - (Simon_Jester)
             Er umm: which president is it - censoring All previous - (Ashton)

If lies were cars, she'd be the Santa Monica Freeway at 5:30 p.m.
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