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Welcome to IWETHEY!

New Let me know when it reaches 2948
[link|http://www.september11victims.com/september11Victims/victims_list.htm|Some of us haven't forgotten 911]

[link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2971464.stm|Or Salman Pak]

I'm the zIWETHEY champion on looking death in the face. You've got nothing on me.

Since everybody else is positng pictures in main fora, I may as well indulge...

[image|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/iraq.jpg||||]

[image|http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/images/massgraves.jpg||||]
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Kerry is a liar and he doesn't tolerate fights from others.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Expand Edited by marlowe Sept. 11, 2004, 09:12:47 AM EDT
New really? you are a bumboy in a mortuary?
dunno about others but I think I have seen more Dead bodies up close and personal than you have,
thanx,
bill
These miserable swine, having nothing but illusions to live on, marshmallows for the soul in place of good meat, will now stoop to any disgusting level to prevent even those miserable morsels from vanishing into thin air. The country is being destroyed by these stupid, vicious right-wing fanatics, the spiritual brothers of the brownshirts and redstars, collectivists and authoritarians all, who would not know freedom if it bit them on the ass, who spend all their time trying to stamp, bludgeon, and eviscerate the very idea of the individual's right to his own private world. DRL
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New If that's the best you can do, I declare victory.
No one who has died [link|http://www.snopes.com/rumors/beamer.htm|fighting evil] has died in vain.

Now those thousands killed three years ago today in those towers... that's something to decry. Agreed?

Also, the untold thousands slaughtered by Saddam. Some of them died fighting, the rest just died.

Been facing death by murder since grade school, my good man. Seen the victims with my own eyes. And that's why I don't care to see these 1000 heros used in some cheap rhetorical ploy against all that they died for. Let turds such as Todd and Peter do their worst to rob their sacrifices of meaning. They won't succeed. And I'll personally see to it they never live it down.
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Kerry is a liar and he doesn't tolerate fights from others.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New victory? how shallow is that?
If you have noticed I dont deny Iraq is nescessary, just that the war is being run by incompetants, starting at the CIC down to the politikals in the pentagon who wont use the tools needed to get the job done. If yer a southie, my sympathies but slavish worship at the alter of the neocons is "Studid is as Stupid does" those folks wish for a communist utopia with them in charge, I didnt fancy the USSR, dont care for cuba and I really dont want to try American Made.
thanx,
bill
These miserable swine, having nothing but illusions to live on, marshmallows for the soul in place of good meat, will now stoop to any disgusting level to prevent even those miserable morsels from vanishing into thin air. The country is being destroyed by these stupid, vicious right-wing fanatics, the spiritual brothers of the brownshirts and redstars, collectivists and authoritarians all, who would not know freedom if it bit them on the ass, who spend all their time trying to stamp, bludgeon, and eviscerate the very idea of the individual's right to his own private world. DRL
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Does that make John Hinckley Jr. a hero?
Ooops, sorry...he ain't dead yet.....











Never.


Mind.
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

Expand Edited by jb4 Sept. 13, 2004, 06:30:27 PM EDT
New So then where's the picture
of Donald Rumsfeld kissing ass to Saddam Hussein, when he went over during Ronnie Raygun's administration to sell hundreds of millions of dollars of weaponry to "our" dictator to fight the war against the "evil" Iranians? Or did that little fact slip your mind? Saddam used US purchased munitions to attack and murder his own people.
lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
New Here's the movie, if you're interested.
[link|http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/|National Security Archive]:

The international community responded with U.N. Security Council resolutions calling for a ceasefire and for all member states to refrain from actions contributing in any way to the conflict's continuation. The Soviets, opposing the war, cut off arms exports to Iran and to Iraq, its ally under a 1972 treaty (arms deliveries resumed in 1982). The U.S. had already ended, when the shah fell, previously massive military sales to Iran. In 1980 the U.S. broke off diplomatic relations with Iran because of the Tehran embassy hostage crisis; Iraq had broken off ties with the U.S. during the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.

The U.S. was officially neutral regarding the Iran-Iraq war, and claimed that it armed neither side. Iran depended on U.S.-origin weapons, however, and sought them from Israel, Europe, Asia, and South America. Iraq started the war with a large Soviet-supplied arsenal, but needed additional weaponry as the conflict wore on.

[...]

Prolonging the war was phenomenally expensive. Iraq received massive external financial support from the Gulf states, and assistance through loan programs from the U.S. The White House and State Department pressured the Export-Import Bank to provide Iraq with financing, to enhance its credit standing and enable it to obtain loans from other international financial institutions. The U.S. Agriculture Department provided taxpayer-guaranteed loans for purchases of American commodities, to the satisfaction of U.S. grain exporters.

The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country's official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan. These were prepared pursuant to his March 1982 National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 4-82) asking for a review of U.S. policy toward the Middle East.

[...]

By the summer of 1983 Iran had been reporting Iraqi use of using chemical weapons for some time. The Geneva protocol requires that the international community respond to chemical warfare, but a diplomatically isolated Iran received only a muted response to its complaints [Note 1]. It intensified its accusations in October 1983, however, and in November asked for a United Nations Security Council investigation.

[...]

Rumsfeld returned to Baghdad in late March 1984. By this time, the U.S. had publicly condemned Iraq's chemical weapons use, stating, "The United States has concluded that the available evidence substantiates Iran's charges that Iraq used chemical weapons" [Document 47]. Briefings for Rumsfeld's meetings noted that atmospherics in Iraq had deteriorated since his December visit because of Iraqi military reverses and because "bilateral relations were sharply set back by our March 5 condemnation of Iraq for CW use, despite our repeated warnings that this issue would emerge sooner or later" [Document 48]. Rumsfeld was to discuss with Iraqi officials the Reagan administration's hope that it could obtain Export-Import Bank credits for Iraq, the Aqaba pipeline, and its vigorous efforts to cut off arms exports to Iran. According to an affidavit prepared by one of Rumsfeld's companions during his Mideast travels, former NSC staff member Howard Teicher, Rumsfeld also conveyed to Iraq an offer from Israel to provide assistance, which was rejected [Document 61].

Although official U.S. policy still barred the export of U.S. military equipment to Iraq, some was evidently provided on a "don't ask - don't tell" basis. In April 1984, the Baghdad interests section asked to be kept apprised of Bell Helicopter Textron's negotiations to sell helicopters to Iraq, which were not to be "in any way configured for military use" [Document 55]. The purchaser was the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. In December 1982, Bell Textron's Italian subsidiary had informed the U.S. embassy in Rome that it turned down a request from Iraq to militarize recently purchased Hughes helicopters. An allied government, South Korea, informed the State Department that it had received a similar request in June 1983 (when a congressional aide asked in March 1983 whether heavy trucks recently sold to Iraq were intended for military purposes, a State Department official replied "we presumed that this was Iraq's intention, and had not asked.") [Document 44]

[...]

In February 1984, Iraq's military, expecting a major Iranian attack, issued a warning that "the invaders should know that for every harmful insect there is an insecticide capable of annihilating it whatever the number and Iraq possesses this annihilation insecticide" [Document 41]. On March 3, the State Department intervened to prevent a U.S. company from shipping 22,000 pounds of phosphorous fluoride, a chemical weapons precursor, to Iraq. Washington instructed the U.S. interests section to protest to the Iraqi government, and to inform the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that "we anticipate making a public condemnation of Iraqi use of chemical weapons in the near future," and that "we are adamantly opposed to Iraq's attempting to acquire the raw materials, equipment, or expertise to manufacture chemical weapons from the United States. When we become aware of attempts to do so, we will act to prevent their export to Iraq" [Document 42].

[...]

The current Bush administration discusses Iraq in starkly moralistic terms to further its goal of persuading a skeptical world that a preemptive and premeditated attack on Iraq could and should be supported as a "just war." The documents included in this briefing book reflect the realpolitik that determined this country's policies during the years when Iraq was actually employing chemical weapons. Actual rather than rhetorical opposition to such use was evidently not perceived to serve U.S. interests; instead, the Reagan administration did not deviate from its determination that Iraq was to serve as the instrument to prevent an Iranian victory. Chemical warfare was viewed as a potentially embarrassing public relations problem that complicated efforts to provide assistance. The Iraqi government's repressive internal policies, though well known to the U.S. government at the time, did not figure at all in the presidential directives that established U.S. policy toward the Iran-Iraq war. The U.S. was concerned with its ability to project military force in the Middle East, and to keep the oil flowing.


Most of Saddam's important weapons-systems (tanks, missiles, APCs, even rifles, etc., etc.) were of Soviet origin. The US supplied agriculture credits and some other financing (and yes money is fungible). Some US trucks and civilian helicopters were supplied. Some intelligence was supplied.

Yes, the US did not complain loudly enough during the chemical weapons attacks. Perhaps they would have ended sooner, if the US (and the rest of the world) had believed and acted on Iranian complaints.

But it's a big stretch, IMHO, to say that the US supplied "munitions" to Saddam based on the information I've been able to find. I'd be interested in any links you can provide.

Cheers,
Scott.
     1000 Faces - (tuberculosis) - (22)
         Re: 1000 Faces - (pwhysall) - (4)
             Re: 1000 Faces - (deSitter) - (1)
                 Re: 1000 Faces - (pwhysall)
             What do you want, a medal? - (marlowe) - (1)
                 There was going to be a post here. - (pwhysall)
         This seems apropos - (jake123) - (1)
             That's it, exactly. Not just the marlowes. -NT - (Ashton)
         Let me know when it reaches 2948 - (marlowe) - (6)
             really? you are a bumboy in a mortuary? - (boxley) - (3)
                 If that's the best you can do, I declare victory. - (marlowe) - (2)
                     victory? how shallow is that? - (boxley)
                     Does that make John Hinckley Jr. a hero? - (jb4)
             So then where's the picture - (lincoln) - (1)
                 Here's the movie, if you're interested. - (Another Scott)
         Hitchens' column. - (Another Scott) - (2)
             Re: Hitchens' column. - (dmcarls) - (1)
                 I think of the short ballet, 'The Green Table' - (Ashton)
         More faces of death to look into - (marlowe) - (4)
             nice find, thanks, well worth the wait for the download - (boxley)
             Tragic true, but completely unrelated -NT - (tuberculosis)
             Re: More faces of death to look into - (deSitter)
             Very nice. - (a6l6e6x)

Severity set to `grave'.
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