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New 1000 Faces
Can you look death in the face?

[link|http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/091004W.shtml|http://www.truthout...._04/091004W.shtml]




That was lovely cheese.

     --Wallace, The Wrong Trousers
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:18:30 AM EDT
New Re: 1000 Faces
I've recently discovered what it means to lose a single person.

This is just too much.

Marlowe, you little shit. Are you listening?


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New Re: 1000 Faces
Now imagine 1000 such pages, and 20 such books. That's Russia in the early 40s.

Imagine 6 books - that's the Jews in Germany.

Imagine half a book - that's the Americans who left their peaceful homes in 1942 and never came home.

I like to think in terms of stadiums, because I know exactly what 50-60k people look, sound, and pee like. In Vietnam we lost one stadium, in II we lost 10. The Russians lost 400.
-drl
New Re: 1000 Faces
The mind boggles at the scale of such loss.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New What do you want, a medal?
Like I haven't lost close relatives to senseless violence. Like the sort you defend when a favorite dictator of yours happens to be doing it.

Shit yourself, hypocrite.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry is a liar and he doesn't tolerate fights from others.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New There was going to be a post here.
But then I realised I was being trolled.


Peter
[link|http://www.debian.org|Shill For Hire]
[link|http://www.kuro5hin.org|There is no K5 Cabal]
[link|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org|Blog]
New This seems apropos
and is indicative of the kinds of things people in Other Lands are learning about the US character from all this:

[link|http://mirror.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/aislin/Aislin.0909.jpg|http://mirror.canada...n/Aislin.0909.jpg]

In case they kill based on the referrer, the whole page can be found here:

[link|http://www.canada.com/montreal/montrealgazette/aislin/0909.html|http://www.canada.co.../aislin/0909.html]
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New That's it, exactly. Not just the marlowes.
New Let me know when it reaches 2948
[link|http://www.september11victims.com/september11Victims/victims_list.htm|Some of us haven't forgotten 911]

[link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2971464.stm|Or Salman Pak]

I'm the zIWETHEY champion on looking death in the face. You've got nothing on me.

Since everybody else is positng pictures in main fora, I may as well indulge...

[image|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/iraq.jpg||||]

[image|http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/images/massgraves.jpg||||]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry is a liar and he doesn't tolerate fights from others.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Expand Edited by marlowe Sept. 11, 2004, 09:12:47 AM EDT
New really? you are a bumboy in a mortuary?
dunno about others but I think I have seen more Dead bodies up close and personal than you have,
thanx,
bill
These miserable swine, having nothing but illusions to live on, marshmallows for the soul in place of good meat, will now stoop to any disgusting level to prevent even those miserable morsels from vanishing into thin air. The country is being destroyed by these stupid, vicious right-wing fanatics, the spiritual brothers of the brownshirts and redstars, collectivists and authoritarians all, who would not know freedom if it bit them on the ass, who spend all their time trying to stamp, bludgeon, and eviscerate the very idea of the individual's right to his own private world. DRL
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New If that's the best you can do, I declare victory.
No one who has died [link|http://www.snopes.com/rumors/beamer.htm|fighting evil] has died in vain.

Now those thousands killed three years ago today in those towers... that's something to decry. Agreed?

Also, the untold thousands slaughtered by Saddam. Some of them died fighting, the rest just died.

Been facing death by murder since grade school, my good man. Seen the victims with my own eyes. And that's why I don't care to see these 1000 heros used in some cheap rhetorical ploy against all that they died for. Let turds such as Todd and Peter do their worst to rob their sacrifices of meaning. They won't succeed. And I'll personally see to it they never live it down.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry is a liar and he doesn't tolerate fights from others.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New victory? how shallow is that?
If you have noticed I dont deny Iraq is nescessary, just that the war is being run by incompetants, starting at the CIC down to the politikals in the pentagon who wont use the tools needed to get the job done. If yer a southie, my sympathies but slavish worship at the alter of the neocons is "Studid is as Stupid does" those folks wish for a communist utopia with them in charge, I didnt fancy the USSR, dont care for cuba and I really dont want to try American Made.
thanx,
bill
These miserable swine, having nothing but illusions to live on, marshmallows for the soul in place of good meat, will now stoop to any disgusting level to prevent even those miserable morsels from vanishing into thin air. The country is being destroyed by these stupid, vicious right-wing fanatics, the spiritual brothers of the brownshirts and redstars, collectivists and authoritarians all, who would not know freedom if it bit them on the ass, who spend all their time trying to stamp, bludgeon, and eviscerate the very idea of the individual's right to his own private world. DRL
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Does that make John Hinckley Jr. a hero?
Ooops, sorry...he ain't dead yet.....











Never.


Mind.
jb4
shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf. BULLSHIT

Expand Edited by jb4 Sept. 13, 2004, 06:30:27 PM EDT
New So then where's the picture
of Donald Rumsfeld kissing ass to Saddam Hussein, when he went over during Ronnie Raygun's administration to sell hundreds of millions of dollars of weaponry to "our" dictator to fight the war against the "evil" Iranians? Or did that little fact slip your mind? Saddam used US purchased munitions to attack and murder his own people.
lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net|contact me]
New Here's the movie, if you're interested.
[link|http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/|National Security Archive]:

The international community responded with U.N. Security Council resolutions calling for a ceasefire and for all member states to refrain from actions contributing in any way to the conflict's continuation. The Soviets, opposing the war, cut off arms exports to Iran and to Iraq, its ally under a 1972 treaty (arms deliveries resumed in 1982). The U.S. had already ended, when the shah fell, previously massive military sales to Iran. In 1980 the U.S. broke off diplomatic relations with Iran because of the Tehran embassy hostage crisis; Iraq had broken off ties with the U.S. during the 1967 Arab-Israeli war.

The U.S. was officially neutral regarding the Iran-Iraq war, and claimed that it armed neither side. Iran depended on U.S.-origin weapons, however, and sought them from Israel, Europe, Asia, and South America. Iraq started the war with a large Soviet-supplied arsenal, but needed additional weaponry as the conflict wore on.

[...]

Prolonging the war was phenomenally expensive. Iraq received massive external financial support from the Gulf states, and assistance through loan programs from the U.S. The White House and State Department pressured the Export-Import Bank to provide Iraq with financing, to enhance its credit standing and enable it to obtain loans from other international financial institutions. The U.S. Agriculture Department provided taxpayer-guaranteed loans for purchases of American commodities, to the satisfaction of U.S. grain exporters.

The U.S. restored formal relations with Iraq in November 1984, but the U.S. had begun, several years earlier, to provide it with intelligence and military support (in secret and contrary to this country's official neutrality) in accordance with policy directives from President Ronald Reagan. These were prepared pursuant to his March 1982 National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 4-82) asking for a review of U.S. policy toward the Middle East.

[...]

By the summer of 1983 Iran had been reporting Iraqi use of using chemical weapons for some time. The Geneva protocol requires that the international community respond to chemical warfare, but a diplomatically isolated Iran received only a muted response to its complaints [Note 1]. It intensified its accusations in October 1983, however, and in November asked for a United Nations Security Council investigation.

[...]

Rumsfeld returned to Baghdad in late March 1984. By this time, the U.S. had publicly condemned Iraq's chemical weapons use, stating, "The United States has concluded that the available evidence substantiates Iran's charges that Iraq used chemical weapons" [Document 47]. Briefings for Rumsfeld's meetings noted that atmospherics in Iraq had deteriorated since his December visit because of Iraqi military reverses and because "bilateral relations were sharply set back by our March 5 condemnation of Iraq for CW use, despite our repeated warnings that this issue would emerge sooner or later" [Document 48]. Rumsfeld was to discuss with Iraqi officials the Reagan administration's hope that it could obtain Export-Import Bank credits for Iraq, the Aqaba pipeline, and its vigorous efforts to cut off arms exports to Iran. According to an affidavit prepared by one of Rumsfeld's companions during his Mideast travels, former NSC staff member Howard Teicher, Rumsfeld also conveyed to Iraq an offer from Israel to provide assistance, which was rejected [Document 61].

Although official U.S. policy still barred the export of U.S. military equipment to Iraq, some was evidently provided on a "don't ask - don't tell" basis. In April 1984, the Baghdad interests section asked to be kept apprised of Bell Helicopter Textron's negotiations to sell helicopters to Iraq, which were not to be "in any way configured for military use" [Document 55]. The purchaser was the Iraqi Ministry of Defense. In December 1982, Bell Textron's Italian subsidiary had informed the U.S. embassy in Rome that it turned down a request from Iraq to militarize recently purchased Hughes helicopters. An allied government, South Korea, informed the State Department that it had received a similar request in June 1983 (when a congressional aide asked in March 1983 whether heavy trucks recently sold to Iraq were intended for military purposes, a State Department official replied "we presumed that this was Iraq's intention, and had not asked.") [Document 44]

[...]

In February 1984, Iraq's military, expecting a major Iranian attack, issued a warning that "the invaders should know that for every harmful insect there is an insecticide capable of annihilating it whatever the number and Iraq possesses this annihilation insecticide" [Document 41]. On March 3, the State Department intervened to prevent a U.S. company from shipping 22,000 pounds of phosphorous fluoride, a chemical weapons precursor, to Iraq. Washington instructed the U.S. interests section to protest to the Iraqi government, and to inform the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that "we anticipate making a public condemnation of Iraqi use of chemical weapons in the near future," and that "we are adamantly opposed to Iraq's attempting to acquire the raw materials, equipment, or expertise to manufacture chemical weapons from the United States. When we become aware of attempts to do so, we will act to prevent their export to Iraq" [Document 42].

[...]

The current Bush administration discusses Iraq in starkly moralistic terms to further its goal of persuading a skeptical world that a preemptive and premeditated attack on Iraq could and should be supported as a "just war." The documents included in this briefing book reflect the realpolitik that determined this country's policies during the years when Iraq was actually employing chemical weapons. Actual rather than rhetorical opposition to such use was evidently not perceived to serve U.S. interests; instead, the Reagan administration did not deviate from its determination that Iraq was to serve as the instrument to prevent an Iranian victory. Chemical warfare was viewed as a potentially embarrassing public relations problem that complicated efforts to provide assistance. The Iraqi government's repressive internal policies, though well known to the U.S. government at the time, did not figure at all in the presidential directives that established U.S. policy toward the Iran-Iraq war. The U.S. was concerned with its ability to project military force in the Middle East, and to keep the oil flowing.


Most of Saddam's important weapons-systems (tanks, missiles, APCs, even rifles, etc., etc.) were of Soviet origin. The US supplied agriculture credits and some other financing (and yes money is fungible). Some US trucks and civilian helicopters were supplied. Some intelligence was supplied.

Yes, the US did not complain loudly enough during the chemical weapons attacks. Perhaps they would have ended sooner, if the US (and the rest of the world) had believed and acted on Iranian complaints.

But it's a big stretch, IMHO, to say that the US supplied "munitions" to Saddam based on the information I've been able to find. I'd be interested in any links you can provide.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Hitchens' column.
[link|http://www.slate.com/id/2106466/|Here] on Slate:

I went to bed on Tuesday night, pointlessly sickened by the news that American deaths in Iraq had exceeded 1,000. Why do I say pointlessly? Well, in the first place because one knew this figure was coming, and in the second place because if it had stayed at 999 one could hardly have taken any comfort from the fact. I woke up, as one sometimes does, remembering that there was a book of poems I had to consult. It's a tattered thing on my shelf: an old anthology called Poetry of the Thirties that took a while to hunt down. The poem I was seeking is titled "A Thousand Killed," and it reads like this:

I read of a thousand killed.
And am glad because the scrounging imperial paw
Was there so bitten:
As a man at elections is thrilled
When the results pour in, and the North goes with him
And the West breaks in the thaw.

(That fighting was a long way off.)

Forgetting therefore an election
Being fought with votes and lies and catch-cries
And orator's frowns and flowers and posters' noise
Is paid for with cheques and toys:
Wars the most glorious
Victory-winged and steeple-uproarious
... With the lives, burned-off,
Of young men and boys.


[...]

Spencer's ambivalence is a reminder that there's no reason to mock other people who are divided in mind and soul about casualties and the morality of war. I remember exhaling with relief when Saddam Hussein's regime was taken down without the death toll on "our" side having much exceeded 100. Antiwar people had predicted many multiples of that. But I also thought it was a just war, which means that if I am honest I have to admit that I would not, or should not, have balked at a higher figure. And those who think it is an unjust or mistaken war should say that it isn't worth a single life, and not hope that any "body bag" calculus will do their moral work for them. The greatest war poet and antiwar poet of them all, Wilfred Owen, spoke of the pity of war, and the poetry of war, and added simply that the poetry was in the pity. He threw away his own life in the last days of the First World War (his mother received the telegram just as the church bells were tolling for the armistice), but he had volunteered and then re-volunteered to do so. One just has to doff one's cap at this point.

[...]


He's quite right that 1000 is not a more important number than 999.

Cheers,
Scott.
New Re: Hitchens' column.
About 18 months ago, I posted this:

Post #98560
By dmcarls
2003-04-24 18:22:46
\t
\t
Sometimes we round down...
History counts its skeletons in round numbers.
A thousand and one remains a thousand,
as though the one had never existed:
an imaginary embryo, an empty cradle,
an ABC never read,
air that laughs, cries, grows,
emptiness running down steps toward the garden,
nobody\ufffds place in the line.

-Hunger Camp at Jaslo- by W. Szymborska


We're going to be there a long, long time:

[link|http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2004/040323-enduring-bases.htm|http://www.globalsec...nduring-bases.htm]

New I think of the short ballet, 'The Green Table'
depicting the white-gloved diplomats gesticulating over the spotless felt table; then cuts to the battlfield scenes, periodically - the expected heaped dead burned young bodies.

[link|http://www.jsonline.com/onwisconsin/arts/jan04/203808.asp| The Green Table]

Closes as.. the dramatis person\ufffd of the First Part, shake hands over Fine cigars - at the Green Table.

Works much better as intended: visually (just as a cartoon is so often far more effective than a sonnet) As suggested, the Guernica of the ballet medium.
New More faces of death to look into
[link|http://www.gunstuff.com/america-attacked.html|If you can stand to]

"Dedicated to the men, women and children who lost their lives;
all those who sacrificed their lives;
And to all the Heroes that responded to the emergency 11 September 2001"
----------------------------------------------------------------
Kerry is a liar and he doesn't tolerate fights from others.
"All the news you wish would go away"
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
New nice find, thanks, well worth the wait for the download
especially today.
thanx,
bill
These miserable swine, having nothing but illusions to live on, marshmallows for the soul in place of good meat, will now stoop to any disgusting level to prevent even those miserable morsels from vanishing into thin air. The country is being destroyed by these stupid, vicious right-wing fanatics, the spiritual brothers of the brownshirts and redstars, collectivists and authoritarians all, who would not know freedom if it bit them on the ass, who spend all their time trying to stamp, bludgeon, and eviscerate the very idea of the individual's right to his own private world. DRL
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
New Tragic true, but completely unrelated



That was lovely cheese.

     --Wallace, The Wrong Trousers
Expand Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:31:39 AM EDT
New Re: More faces of death to look into
That is NOT what we are responding to! We are defiling their memory with our current actions. Abu Grahib is a stain on top of a stain.
-drl
New Very nice.
Certainly explains why the US invaded Afghanistan. It does not explain why we are failing there now. It does not explain why the bin Ladens were flying all over the US while the rest of us were grounded. It does not explain why Osama is still on the loose. Or, is that reserved for the October surprise?

It of course has nothing to do with Iraq.
Alex

"If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." -- Philip K. Dick, US science fiction writer
     1000 Faces - (tuberculosis) - (22)
         Re: 1000 Faces - (pwhysall) - (4)
             Re: 1000 Faces - (deSitter) - (1)
                 Re: 1000 Faces - (pwhysall)
             What do you want, a medal? - (marlowe) - (1)
                 There was going to be a post here. - (pwhysall)
         This seems apropos - (jake123) - (1)
             That's it, exactly. Not just the marlowes. -NT - (Ashton)
         Let me know when it reaches 2948 - (marlowe) - (6)
             really? you are a bumboy in a mortuary? - (boxley) - (3)
                 If that's the best you can do, I declare victory. - (marlowe) - (2)
                     victory? how shallow is that? - (boxley)
                     Does that make John Hinckley Jr. a hero? - (jb4)
             So then where's the picture - (lincoln) - (1)
                 Here's the movie, if you're interested. - (Another Scott)
         Hitchens' column. - (Another Scott) - (2)
             Re: Hitchens' column. - (dmcarls) - (1)
                 I think of the short ballet, 'The Green Table' - (Ashton)
         More faces of death to look into - (marlowe) - (4)
             nice find, thanks, well worth the wait for the download - (boxley)
             Tragic true, but completely unrelated -NT - (tuberculosis)
             Re: More faces of death to look into - (deSitter)
             Very nice. - (a6l6e6x)

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