Who DOESN'T deplore the abuse in Abu Ghraib?

Post #154,322 by marlowe 5/8/04 4:45:41 PM Reply	Who DOESN'T deplore the abuse in Abu Ghraib? [link\|http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2004/roll150.xml\|What sort of person wouldn't?] Excerpt: H RES 627 RECORDED VOTE 6-May-2004 3:05 PM QUESTION: On Agreeing to the Resolution BILL TITLE: Deploring the Abuse of Persons in United States Custody in Iraq NOES 50 Abercrombie Blumenauer Brown (OH) Clyburn Conyers Cummings Fattah Frank (MA) Grijalva Gutierrez Hastings (FL) Hinchey Hoyer Inslee Jackson-Lee (TX) Jones (OH) KapturKilpatrick Kucinich Lee Lewis (GA) Markey McCollum McDermott McGovern Meek (FL) Millender-McDonald Miller, George Mollohan Oberstar Olver Owens Pallone Paul Payne Pelosi Rangel Ryan (OH) Sabo Schakowsky Serrano Stark Strickland Towns Velazquez Waters Watson Watt Waxman Woolsey I say: One Republican, 49 Democrats. Remember this whenever anyone expresses outrage over what happened there. Outrage is appropriate, but not everyone is sincere in his outrage. Those who are not sincere have no moral standing to demand anything be done about it. I, however, do. I have never advocated letting even worse abuses than this by Saddam's regime go unpunished. On the contrary, I have my wholehearted support to the intervention that put an end to the removed tongues, the severed fingers, the mass graves the ancien regime. So I can say without hypocrisy: When those responsible for this are sentenced, I hope they go to jail for a very long time. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/#20040508\|Home link] ---------------------------------------------------------------- DEAL WITH IT. Americans: a pack, not a herd. Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas? "It\ufffds Warholian: in the future, all conflicts will be Vietnam for 15 minutes." - Lileks [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Post #154,327 by rcareaga 5/8/04 5:38:22 PM 5/8/04 7:09:55 PM Reply	Full bill title "deploring the abuse of persons in United States custody in Iraq, regardless of the circumstances of their detention, urging the Secretary of the Army to bring to swift justice any member of the Armed Forces who has violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice, expressing the deep appreciation of the Nation to the courageous and honorable members of the Armed Forces who have selflessly served, or are currently serving, in Operation Iraqi Freedom, and for other purposes" You're a funny little fella, philbot. I look forward to watching you writhe (though I daresay you'll take it offstage) in the coming weeks, [edit: emphasis added] Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist. Edited by rcareaga May 8, 2004, 07:09:55 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #154,329 by boxley 5/8/04 5:43:42 PM Reply	hmm maybe I saw a different point his last point was to nail the little bastards well. He also pointed out those who thought it should have been a straight condemnation not a by the way the rest are a fine bunch of fellows voted noe and noted that sincerity rather than piling on is a virtue, thanx, bill attempting to explain profiling doesn't require one to take a position for or against it any more than attempting to explain gravity requires one to be for or against gravity. Walter Williams questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #154,331 by tangaroa 5/8/04 6:12:56 PM Reply	gdaustin and Rush Limbaugh As for that bill, have you never heard of poison pill riders? Here's probably why they voted against it: (10) expresses the continuing solidarity and support of the House of Representatives and the American people for the partnership of the United States with the Iraqi people in building a viable Iraqi government and a secure nation. which is Nazi-ese for "the House supports occupying Iraq for the foreseeable future", which many of those voting against the bill don't support. Not to mention the propaganda in the whereas clauses which could offend people.
Post #154,333 by rcareaga 5/8/04 6:42:01 PM 5/8/04 7:08:58 PM Reply	Just so. GOP SOP. "Look at Pelosi! She voted against motherhood, the flag and apple pie! (and [insert vicious ideological pet project here])" But don't expect such nuanced elements to register in the gaudy primary colors that make up the moral spectrum of Marloworld™. He's a not nearly rare-enough blend of cluelessness and intellectual dishonesty, is our Little Phil. But again, I don't think he'll be bothering us much in coming weeks. cordially, [edit: closequote] Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist. Edited by rcareaga May 8, 2004, 07:08:58 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #154,339 by inthane-chan 5/8/04 7:58:52 PM Reply	It's Congressional SOP. Not disagreeing with you, but just pointing out that both sides use that technique as much as possible. Tired of lying in the sunshine staying home to watch the rain. You are young and life is long and there is time to kill today. And then one day you find ten years have got behind you. No one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun.
Post #154,347 by gdaustin 5/8/04 9:41:57 PM Reply	This is a WAR... And a war means we kill and torture people. Especially in the intelligence parts of the Army. Sorry, it's ugly, it's terrible, but like Colonel Jessop said in A Few Good Men. "You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall." If we turn our intelligence officers into criminals and try them war crimes, we've just destroyed the U.S. Army (and other branches), and intelligence as we know it. We have to do some terrible things to win, and we must win because the price for losing is much too high. If you want your wives and kids sold off into slavery for torture and mutilation by some evil Sheik, then go right on in your little panzy world that believes that we all fight by the Geneva Convention, that we are different from other people fighting. Just go right on and believe that as you see the power grid of the U.S. destroyed by terrorists, then the transporation infrastructure, and so on. We're fighting in this country, and I believe the actions of these people are necessary to extract the kinds of information we need from the enemy, and we need to humilate those who don't cooperate. It does need to be investigated, but if we turn our intelligence officers into criminals, then we've just cut the nuts off of the Army Intelligence corps. Glen Austin
Post #154,351 by boxley 5/8/04 9:50:44 PM Reply	WOAH! Pojo, I could get the info without a gay S&M session! These people were not interogating, they were playing their dirty little fantasies out on the voiceless. If you need info you get it. The methods have been around a long time, they dont involve gay bondage sessions directed by the IGA bag boy. If the IGA bag boy knew interogation techniques his regular job at home would not involve life or death decisions like paper or plastic. This is just a fuckup big time. thanx, bill Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #154,354 by ben_tilly 5/8/04 10:17:42 PM Reply	If this is a war Then why the hell are we fighting it? Note: Iraq had many black eyes to their name, but support of Al Queda was not one of them. We're the aggressors in this little war. So if you think that we should be at war, and should do the war right, then you are saying that we should be the bad guys. Period. Stop and think about that. If that doesn't sicken you, then you definitely sicken me. Just like the schoolyard bullies who would beat up a random kid because they couldn't find the kid they were actually pissed at. Except on a grander scale. If that does sicken you, then look in the mirror. And ask yourself why we're supposed to be in Iraq. Why we went there. What we said we were going to do. And then what we've actually done. Regards, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #155,483 by marlowe 5/17/04 2:38:50 PM Reply	No terrorist links here, nope. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/iraq.terrorism.html\|Nothing to see here, folks. Move along] Oh wait. The only count [link\|http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/29/sprj.irq.terrorist.capture/\|if they're al Qaeda] right? [link\|http://www.meib.org/articles/0106_ir1.htm\|Aggressors my ass.] Say, what's put you in such an intolerant mood? ---------------------------------------------------------------- DEAL WITH IT. Americans: a pack, not a herd. Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas? "It\ufffds Warholian: in the future, all conflicts will be Vietnam for 15 minutes." - Lileks [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]
Post #155,500 by boxley 5/17/04 3:17:14 PM Reply	a stilletto indeed Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #155,504 by jbrabeck 5/17/04 3:21:50 PM Reply	How remarkable. Proof is link to his own website.
Post #155,572 by rcareaga 5/17/04 5:36:42 PM Reply	Re: How remarkable. Proof is link to his own website. How 'bout that? But the dear lad always was a bit, ah, self-referential. Wank. Wank, wank. cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #154,355 by rcareaga 5/8/04 10:26:30 PM Reply	Re: This is a HALLUCINATION gdaustin raves If you want your wives and kids sold off into slavery for torture and mutilation by some evil Sheik, then go right on in your little panzy world that believes that we all fight by the Geneva Convention, that we are different from other people fighting. Be good enough to explain how my wives (how did you know I was a polygamist?) children and chattel are at risk for torture/mutilation by "some evil Sheik" if you please. I live in Oakland, California, just a couple of miles from the waterfront. Am I to assume that the evil sheiks will make a Normandy-style landing, or will they drop by parachute? Should I also guard against invasion by Australian aborigines? Have you checked the expiration date on your medication recently? with deep concern. Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #154,356 by Another Scott 5/8/04 10:37:54 PM Reply	Beware of small, green-dressed urchins...
Post #154,357 by inthane-chan 5/8/04 10:38:20 PM Reply	That was the BEST Call of Cthulhu game EVER.
Post #154,360 by boxley 5/8/04 11:18:04 PM Reply	heathen mormon they dont hafta haulem to Iran, just to the 711 on the corner. thanx. bill Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #154,390 by bepatient 5/9/04 10:18:06 AM Reply	While I don't agree with the former... ..I hope for your sake that the waterfront you speak of is not the harbor. It is exactly that comfort level that you speak from that will be taken advantage of when the next attack hits. I'm safe because they cannot reach me. I'm certain that everyone in OKC and NYC thought so. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #154,419 by ben_tilly 5/9/04 2:34:43 PM Reply	That isn't what people in NYC thought People in NYC, when they thought about it, thought that nobody would dare because the US response would be so overwhelming. Which is part of the reason that I am personally so pissed off that this administration got sidetracked with politics as normal, and proceeded to focus on the side-show in Iraq, to the detriment of finishing the real job. Regards, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #154,421 by Andrew Grygus 5/9/04 4:32:24 PM Reply	A false hope in any case. Terrorists do not value lives, not their own, not their countrymen. If the U.S. was guranteed to kill tens of thousands of their own countrymen in retaliation it would not deter them. That would just improve the supply of willing terrorists commitmed to their cause. These people serve Turth, and no one who serves Truth, whether it be Islamic Truth, Christian Truth, or The Great Comet, can be expected to act rationally or with any consideration whatever for human life. Truth is absolute and immutable, and all else is irrelevant. In truth, to call Servants of Truth pigs is to insult pigs, which are a lot more rational and probably cleaner. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #154,437 by ben_tilly 5/9/04 10:56:08 PM Reply	That's obvious..now BTW a correction. Pigs have to be dirtier. They're unclean - we know this because the Bible tells us so. :-P Cheers, Ben To deny the indirect purchaser, who in this case is the ultimate purchaser, the right to seek relief from unlawful conduct, would essentially remove the word consumer from the Consumer Protection Act - [link\|http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?NewsID=1246&Page=1&pagePos=20\|Nebraska Supreme Court]
Post #154,451 by boxley 5/10/04 8:53:09 AM Reply	they are unclean because they are omnivores same as us and canibalism is verboten. thanx, bill Time for Lord Stanley to get a Tan questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #154,502 by Andrew Grygus 5/10/04 1:02:00 PM Reply	No, they are considered unclean for a very specific reason. As most primitive rural people know, pigs for some reason consider human excrement a delicious treat and will come running to get it. To quote an Indonesian farmer, "What we shit here they eat in the city". [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #154,505 by rcareaga 5/10/04 1:09:38 PM Reply	unclean! unclean! Grygus: "pigs for some reason consider human excrement a delicious treat and will come running to get it." Sort of like Limbaugh's audience, you think? cordially, Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist.
Post #154,507 by Andrew Grygus 5/10/04 1:11:34 PM Reply	No, there they're after . . . . pig excrement. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #154,497 by lincoln 5/10/04 12:17:06 PM Reply	OKC was done by a home-grown terrorist and was never considered a "target" by the local population for anything. I mean, other than the federal building there, what can you strike at that will draw the attention of the country? The state capital while in session? Anything else? I can't think of any other choices. The locals probably didn't think "I'm safe because they cannot reach me" but more along the lines of "I'm safe because there's nothing here to target". Whereas NYC stands as Exhibit A for everything that "The Great Satan" represents to the Islamic world - capitalism, arrogance, self-promotion, a regular Sodom and Gamorrah, etc. etc. etc. lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #154,504 by Andrew Grygus 5/10/04 1:08:31 PM Reply	And a large and powerful Jewish community. To quote an Egyptian school girl on 9/11, "I hope there were a lot of jews in those buildings". Of course one victim of the attack was a vault full of priceless antique Islamic prayer rugs, but those who don't value human life can't be expected to value art. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #154,506 by jb4 5/10/04 1:11:24 PM Reply	Still, they value the relics of their religion I mean, when we bomb a mosque, the hew and cry is that we're "defiling the institutions of Islam" or some such tommyrot. Hypocrites are hypocrites, no matter what their "religious affiliation" jb4 shrub\ufffdbish (Am., from shrub* + rubbish, after the derisive name for America's 43 president; 2003) n. 1. a form of nonsensical political doubletalk wherein the speaker attempts to defend the indefensible by lying, obfuscation, or otherwise misstating the facts; GIBBERISH. 2. any of a collection of utterances from America's putative 43rd president. cf.* BULLSHIT
Post #154,532 by bepatient 5/10/04 4:50:04 PM Reply	Depends on who you read and believe. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #154,338 by Simon_Jester 5/8/04 7:57:39 PM Reply	Why not quote the guys who voted against? To quote from the debate: Mr. MEEK of Florida. Mr. Speaker, I rise to strongly oppose H. Res. 627, the Iraqi Prisoner Resolution, because it is simply deficient as a statement expressing the outrage and revulsion that I feel, and that I believe the American people feel, about the despicable abuse and humiliation of these prisoners. The resolution also lacks any call for bipartisan congressional investigations to be conducted immediately into these allegations of abuse, including those by U.S. civilian contractor personnel or other U.S. civilians, and into chain of command and other systemic deficiencies that contributed to this abuse, which have been called for by members of both parties. It is impossible to exaggerate the seriousness and importance of this abusive mistreatment. It sets us back in the War on Terrorism by turning against us the very allies among moderate Muslims that we need in order to be successful. It taints the reputation of our Nation in the world community and the reputation of our men and women in uniform for years to come. It undermines U.S. credibility as the world's leader in the protection of international human rights. It hurts our efforts to protect the state of Israel and broker peace in the Middle East. And it invites similar abuse of members of our military, indeed any U.S. citizen, who may be captured by our enemies in the future. My great fear is that American lives will be lost because of the impact of this illegal, inhumane and un-American mistreatment. The Bush administration has not gone nearly far enough or fast enough to apologize for these human rights abuses, or to hold accountable those who are responsible for them, and neither does this resolution. I am therefore opposed to it. [link\|http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r108:1:./temp/~r108m8f0W9:e97959:\| Source ]

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