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New Re: No. No No
The Taliban are a pheripheral target because their leader wouldn't hand over OBL.

No. They're a main target because they've protected, sponsored, and nurtured him.

How much was who running who is obviously, in some debate.

The Taliban as it stands now, must fall, according to US doctrine. And I don't really disagree with that.

Taliban moderates

I *really* suggest you read up on the Taliban you want to spare.

Of course, your use of "Taliban" is subject to question, but *I* won't get into that contest with you, since there are bigger issues on the table.

Applying black-white rules such as - 'they' are enemy, fu** Ramadan, bad luck mr & mrs collateral, will whip up a sh** load of Muslim reaction that might just be enough to topple Pakistan, Indonesia

Which isn't what *I've* said, and your inability to read that isn't my fault.

But *not* doing what we're there to do because its Ramadan makes *no sense*. Not even from a standpoint that you're taking it. The "moderates" understand the attack. Anybody who doesn't, wouldn't care.

I'll ask you again: How will the US definately benefit - no "mights" or anything, *what* part of the Islamic world would be "impressed" with us not attacking?

And so you're saying its *OK* to bomb as long as its NOT a holiday?

Addison
New Re: No. No No
"No. They're a main target because they've protected, sponsored, and nurtured him. "

We will never make progress in any discussion as long as generic labels gat applied and there are no boundaries around the.

"The Taliban as it stands now, must fall, according to US doctrine. And I don't really disagree with that."

That is an given !!! - this whole thread is about how & when & who gets included - during Ramadan!!!

Applying black-white rules such as - 'they' are enemy, fu** Ramadan, bad luck mr & mrs collateral, will
whip up a sh** load of Muslim reaction that might just be enough to topple Pakistan, Indonesia
"Which isn't what *I've* said, and your inability to read that isn't my fault."

You are saying that bombing should continue no matter what special time it is. I have agreed except I added that civillian areas should be avoided during Ramadan so as to clearly avoid collateral casualties - you countered that that makes no difference as Taliban are moving their soldiers into civillian areas and any one who does that & any civilians that let it happen are bad luck targets - I reminded you that the US went into Afghanistan to attack terrorist bases & capture Bin Laden. So I restated the case bluntly - now contradict the above paragraph.


"But *not* doing what we're there to do because its Ramadan makes *no sense*. Not even from a
standpoint that you're taking it. The "moderates" understand the attack. Anybody who doesn't, wouldn't
care."

I certainly *never* said we shouldn't stop hitting OBL bases & going after Bin Laden during Ramadan. I have said that we need to show sensitivity to the effect on civillians.


You have ignored the points re the instability of Pakistan & the potential to trigger a wider crisis if we don't show care during Ramadan ****re the civilians*****
You keep stating that Taliban are all targets but you won't qualify why you believe the assault should switch from terorists & OBL & el qaeda - since when did ordinary Taliban soldiers attack New York. No one is arguing that if they try to stop the pusuit of primary goals they will have to be dealt with. US plan is to weaken Taliban & allow other groups to move in but to allow a settlement that includes moderates if Bin Laden is handed over. It seems you would rather burn all our negotiating bridges as well as risk a wider crisis by allowing collateral casualties during Ramadan.

I will again say thank god Colin Powell is calling the shots. He has the maturity and experience to deal with the Ramadan issue. I am willing to bet on it.

Cheers

Doug
New Re: No. No No
I certainly *never* said we shouldn't stop hitting OBL bases & going after Bin Laden during Ramadan. I have said that we need to show sensitivity to the effect on civillians.

So...

What's the *difference* then?

We're showing sensitivity *now*?

But its OK not to, as long as its not a Holiday?

Addison
New Re: No. No No

Good boy !!

'Your' sensitivity overwhelms me.

Again - thank god Powell is in charge.

     November 17th deadline for military action - (bluke) - (112)
         Re: November 17th deadline for military action - (addison) - (10)
             Sensitivity is very important here - (Steven A S) - (9)
                 I don't think so. - (addison) - (8)
                     But what of sensitivity toward Islam itself? - (marlowe) - (6)
                         Ah, the tolerance of the man. - (Silverlock)
                         Missing the point - (hnick)
                         Other ways to look at it.. - (addison) - (3)
                             I'm presuming that we can keep an eye on the situation... - (marlowe) - (2)
                                 Problem is... - (addison) - (1)
                                     I can't parse it any better than that either. - (Ashton)
                     I see the fence sitters as - (Steven A S)
         Re: November 17th deadline for military action - (rsf) - (40)
             Tend to agree. Remember the Tet Offensive? - (drewk) - (39)
                 Thank you for reading my mind. - (jb4)
                 Fool me twice, shame on me. - (marlowe) - (37)
                     Re: Fool me twice, shame on me. - (addison) - (36)
                         Re: Wakeup call: So many missing the point - (dmarker2) - (35)
                             !Vietnam - (kmself) - (30)
                                 Re: Not the same debate ??? - (dmarker2)
                                 Death toll majority non-citizens? - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                     Wikipedia - (kmself) - (1)
                                         The numbers are in flux. AP story. - (Another Scott)
                                 Where thugs come from - (Silverlock) - (4)
                                     Yep. But not as late as the 20th century - (admin) - (3)
                                         to google or not to google - (Silverlock) - (2)
                                             My own faulty memory... - (admin) - (1)
                                                 Vaguely remember a movie about this - (Silverlock)
                                 Tremendous analogy! - (jb4) - (1)
                                     Cancer - (kmself)
                                 You make me look moderate by comparison! - (marlowe) - (17)
                                     Its a common sense approach. - (addison) - (16)
                                         Re: who is the 'they' you write of ? - (dmarker2) - (15)
                                             They is somewhat fluid, depending on context. - (addison) - (14)
                                                 Re: I think you have lost sight of who - (dmarker2) - (13)
                                                     No, its not I with the lost sight. - (addison) - (12)
                                                         Re: Springing Bin Laden's trap - (dmarker2) - (11)
                                                             Re: Springing Bin Laden's trap - (addison) - (10)
                                                                 Re: Consider this ... - (dmarker2) - (9)
                                                                     Re: Consider this ... - (addison) - (8)
                                                                         Re: stick to the facts - (dmarker2) - (7)
                                                                             I'm not the one moving away from them - (addison) - (6)
                                                                                 Re: wrapping up - (dmarker2) - (5)
                                                                                     Re: wrapping up - (addison) - (4)
                                                                                         Re: wrapping up - another try - (dmarker2) - (3)
                                                                                             Retch out? - (wharris2) - (2)
                                                                                                 Ah.. the 1+1 certain logic of the unwarranted kewl buttinski -NT - (Ashton)
                                                                                                 Re: Retch out? - (dmarker2)
                                 OT: thugs. And comments. - (Another Scott)
                             Getting into possible Godwin territory, but... - (jb4) - (3)
                                 Also, Nazism wasn't backed by an ancient and venerable... - (marlowe)
                                 Re: Getting into possible Godwin territory, Headfirst !!! - (dmarker2)
                                 Point of order. Godwin. - (Ashton)
         Good time - (JayMehaffey) - (2)
             We'll have a great advantage in winter though. - (admin) - (1)
                 Possibly. - (addison)
         Re: November 17th deadline for military action - (gtall) - (56)
             Re: It is simpler than that - (dmarker2) - (55)
                 Less simple. - (addison) - (8)
                     Re: 'they' - yet again - (dmarker2) - (7)
                         No. - (addison) - (6)
                             No. No No - (dmarker2) - (5)
                                 Alas, I'm afraid that in US - it will likely be about - (Ashton)
                                 Re: No. No No - (addison) - (3)
                                     Re: No. No No - (dmarker2) - (2)
                                         Re: No. No No - (addison) - (1)
                                             Re: No. No No - (dmarker2)
                 Re: It is simpler than that - (gtall) - (45)
                     Re: Cant even you see ... - (dmarker2) - (44)
                         You're not seeing something very important. - (addison) - (1)
                             Re: maybe we are honing in on something here - (dmarker2)
                         Re: Cant even you see ... - (gtall) - (22)
                             Heh.. luck? - (Ashton)
                             Re: Cant even you see ... - (dmarker2) - (20)
                                 Ashton has a kernel of a good idea ... - (gtall) - (19)
                                     Heh.. nice lateral pass near the (endzone?) - (Ashton) - (3)
                                         Re: Heh.. nice lateral pass near the (endzone?) - (gtall) - (2)
                                             I'm *certain* that you know my fav academia quote (!) - (Ashton) - (1)
                                                 Re: I'm *certain* that you know my fav academia quote (!) - (gtall)
                                     Re: Greatly enjoyed that ... - (dmarker2) - (14)
                                         Re: Greatly enjoyed that ... - (gtall) - (13)
                                             OK.. Spike Jones! (In Der F\ufffdehrer's Face)____:-\ufffd - (Ashton) - (12)
                                                 Re: OK.. Spike Jones! & the city slickers - beetlebomb - (dmarker2) - (3)
                                                     Re: OK.. Spike Jones! & the city slickers - beetlebomb - (gtall) - (2)
                                                         Also, Car Talk on NPR - "Click & Clack the Tappit brothers" -NT - (a6l6e6x)
                                                         They seemed closest that.. '50s Murican culture could abide - (Ashton)
                                                 Dinner music for people who aren't really hungry - (wharris2) - (7)
                                                     Re: Ear candy for the noise hungry - (dmarker2) - (6)
                                                         Re: Ear candy for the noise hungry - (wharris2) - (5)
                                                             Re: Ear candy for the noise hungry - (dmarker2) - (4)
                                                                 Re: Ear candy for the noise hungry - (wharris2) - (3)
                                                                     Re: We live in interesting times - (dmarker2) - (2)
                                                                         cackle - (wharris2) - (1)
                                                                             Re: cackle - (dmarker2)
                         Human Shields, Information Warfare - (kmself) - (18)
                             Is there reason to believe US means to stifle al-Jazeera? - (Ashton) - (5)
                                 Yes - (kmself) - (4)
                                     No less disturbing, for being so utterly unsurprising :[ -NT - (Ashton)
                                     What? - (addison) - (2)
                                         Well.. both are still in bizness - (Ashton)
                                         Mahr was publicly censured, Onion commented on it - (kmself)
                             Re: A well argued and reasoned case - thanks - (dmarker2) - (11)
                                 I think you're missing something. - (Another Scott) - (1)
                                     Re: I think you're missing something. - (dmarker2)
                                 Taliban troops - (kmself) - (8)
                                     Re: Taliban troops - US invasion ? - (dmarker2) - (5)
                                         Occupation - (kmself) - (4)
                                             Re: Occupation - (wharris2) - (2)
                                                 Bosnia - (kmself)
                                                 Kosovo - (Arkadiy)
                                             Occupation update: SF Chron, US to base ops in Afghanistan - (kmself)
                                     Who is going to deal with these refugees? - (bluke) - (1)
                                         Changes like a kaleidoscope daily.. - (Ashton)

We could go on a quest!
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