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New And *that* is a sucker bet
The book 2013/2014 book cannot in any factual way contradict the 2003/2004 book. Period.

Science is a process, not an end. The things that we think we know, we have different degrees of uncertainty about. Very few popular books try very hard to address this, and no author, no matter how they try, is able to both quote lots of detail and also constantly qualify each detail with information on how certain we are about the item quoted.

Furthermore in any book, there are bound to be honest mistakes. If we take 2 books and compare them, any mistake in either and you have your sucker bet. Heck, no need to wait 10 years. Buy 2 books about the Grand Canyon right now and the odds are very good that, if you read closely, they contradict each other right now in some way! Heck, take two editions of the same book by the same publisher, look at the errata, and there you go!

So I offered a version of the bet which listed conclusions that I believe we are pretty confident about. Therefore those conclusions shouldn't change within 10 years. More detailed current theories will change (that is the scientific process at work), but the ones that I offered won't.

Of course you won't take that bet because you know that I'd win it easily. So we don't have a bet. Not because anyone here lacks confidence in science, but because I refuse to bet against human error and the scientific process, while you refuse to bet against the outcome of the scientific process.

On the topic of selling creationist literature, there is a simple reason that I didn't respond to that question. I never spoke out against that, and so didn't see any point in defending what I never said. My position is that if they want to devote a section of the bookstore to Creationist literature, go ahead. Just don't put it in the science section, and let people know that it doesn't belong there.

Don't believe me? Take a look at [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=133412|this post] to see me raise the issue. Take a look at the whole damned thread with Wade in religion to see me repeatedly saying that Creationism shouldn't be presented as science. I never once said that Creationism should never be presented. I said that it shouldn't be presented as science.

Please read the whole thread again (in all 3 forums) to verify that. Once you have verified that you were flaming me for something that I never said, I'd appreciate it if you would get back to me with an apology.

Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
New An apology from the FLAME FORUM?
Urm... Ben... You're out of your fucking mind. It is contrary to the system. If you want a real dialog, take it out of here to a sane (for limited definitions of sane) forum.

There's RULES here, ya see...
New Fair enough...
I have reread and stand corrected. I apologize for trying to put words in your mouth. Not a totally meaningless discourse on my end, however.

In the spirit of this particular forum heading (and because of the jeers about "get a hotel room, etc." sure to follow :-0 ), I still feel compelled to at least call you a butthead. Ben, you are butthead.
Just a few thoughts,

Danno
     In other words (Ben is such a fucking wuss)... - (CRConrad) - (70)
         Learn some history, asshole - (ben_tilly) - (69)
             Ben is right - (deSitter)
             Learn to read, Fuck-face. - (CRConrad) - (27)
                 Learn to read yourself - (ben_tilly) - (26)
                     You learn first. - (CRConrad) - (25)
                         Of course I have further advice to give - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                             You'd need to assume? - (CRConrad)
                         Thank you... I knew you weren't really completely a lamer - (danreck) - (22)
                             On that side bet - (ben_tilly) - (19)
                                 Re: On that side bet - (danreck) - (18)
                                     Dumbass. - (admin) - (11)
                                         Ouch... - (danreck)
                                         Oh, and by the way... - (danreck) - (9)
                                             Re: Oh, and by the way... - (deSitter)
                                             Re: Oh, and by the way... - (admin) - (7)
                                                 Old English UNIX - (deSitter) - (6)
                                                     If yer gonna Old English, do it right, dufus - (jb4) - (5)
                                                         That's not Old English, fuckwit. - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                                             Dorkus Maximus... - (danreck)
                                                             Ignorant? -NT - (folkert) - (1)
                                                                 I once ahad a coworker - (Arkadiy)
                                                             And damn proud of it too, butthole! -NT - (jb4)
                                     Re: On that side bet - (deSitter)
                                     Who chooses the book? - (ben_tilly) - (4)
                                         Re: Who chooses the book? - (danreck) - (3)
                                             And *that* is a sucker bet - (ben_tilly) - (2)
                                                 An apology from the FLAME FORUM? - (hnick)
                                                 Fair enough... - (danreck)
                             [Edit: Typo] Been going to say this for a while: - (CRConrad) - (1)
                                 ICLRPD (new thread) - (Silverlock)
             bah, what crap, creationism is correct - (boxley) - (39)
                 Yes indeed - (orion) - (12)
                     You might want to read this. - (Another Scott) - (9)
                         FUD plain and simple -NT - (orion) - (8)
                             This post left blank because there's nothing one can say. -NT - (CRConrad) - (6)
                                 Imagine that - (orion) - (5)
                                     By your fuckwittery, yes. -NT - (pwhysall) - (4)
                                         Just can't get over it can you - (orion) - (3)
                                             And also unlike Peter, you're just plain fucking STUPID. - (CRConrad) - (2)
                                                 I don't have the time to waste combating fud. - (orion) - (1)
                                                     That was an excerpt. Read the linked article for the proofs. -NT - (Another Scott)
                             Facts, Understanding and Demonstration? Yup, it is. :-\ufffd -NT - (Another Scott)
                     the accidental ape is not nescessarily in the design - (boxley) - (1)
                         Indeed - (orion)
                 What a carefully thought out and informed position... -NT - (ben_tilly) - (25)
                     yup - (boxley) - (24)
                         Nice little gap in that reasoning - (ben_tilly) - (23)
                             Eyes? -NT - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                 No mystery there. - (admin) - (3)
                                     An honest question - (Arkadiy) - (1)
                                         Yes - (ben_tilly)
                                     Thanks. - (mmoffitt)
                             ok lets start with a carbon based life form - (boxley) - (17)
                                 Chaos theory as misunderstood, you mean? - (ben_tilly) - (16)
                                     More non-sequiteurs - (jake123) - (2)
                                         Body piercings don't have this kind of torque, though. -NT - (admin)
                                         ICLRPD! (new thread) - (jb4)
                                     large phlem dripping from a donkeys ass - (boxley) - (12)
                                         I'll amend that statement - (ben_tilly) - (11)
                                             NON SEQUITUR - (admin) - (1)
                                                 Sorry, boxley's spelin is werng off - (ben_tilly)
                                             Of course, you have met me, do I act at all reasonable? - (boxley) - (8)
                                                 But, I see no mention of extinctions. - (a6l6e6x)
                                                 I've met you and you act like you don't give a shit - (ben_tilly) - (6)
                                                     good link pole shifts can and do explain a lot -NT - (boxley) - (5)
                                                         Hey - You can't do THAT! - (broomberg) - (3)
                                                             naw busy trying to find the link - (boxley) - (2)
                                                                 Dream on - (ben_tilly) - (1)
                                                                     a squint in yer eye - (boxley)
                                                         Poleax shifts.. - (Ashton)

What were the skies like when you were young?
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