Post #131,542
12/19/03 2:31:18 PM
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wow
a government official who realizes you can't spend what you don't have.
Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #131,550
12/19/03 2:52:35 PM
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This is common in the states
Most state constitutions explicitly forbid deficit spending. Many governors have been carping to shrub about that as he continues to cut the streams of federal funding that so many states have long depended on.
If services continue to decline its going to be all going to the war machine. Not sure I want to pay for that.
"I believe that many of the systems we build today in Java would be better built in Smalltalk and Gemstone."
-- Martin Fowler, JAOO 2003
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Post #131,551
12/19/03 3:31:42 PM
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not for California
I found [link|http://www.igs.berkeley.edu/library/htConstReform2003.html|this]
September 2003
Introduction
Proposals for constitutional reform of California's budget process and tax and spending policies tend to focus on four areas:
...
* Prohibitions on debt and deficits, and explicit mandates for a balanced budget.
which implies California doesn't require a balanced budget. Darrell Spice, Jr. [link|http://www.spiceware.org/cgi-bin/spa.pl?album=./Artistic%20Overpass|Artistic Overpass]\n[link|http://www.spiceware.org/|SpiceWare] - We don't do Windows, it's too much of a chore
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Post #131,561
12/19/03 5:02:10 PM
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Come to Canada
We straightened out our fiscal situation quite a while back.
Of course, we do pay more taxes than you do, but at least we're not using a credit card to pay for our services. Oh yeah... there is NO jurisdiction in Canada that has a law requiring balanced budgets; democracy takes care of profligate spenders, not the law (cf- Ontario's recent election, where the right wing party, profligate spenders that they were, got tossed out on their ass, upon which it was discovered that in fact they were running deficits and lying about it).
The idea that one can legislate balanced budgets is a canard, and really stoopid public policy to boot. OTOH, actually RUNNING a balanced budget is not a canard, and most of the time is smart public policy... but there are times and conditions when that's NOT the case (wars, natural disasters, anyone?), and explicitly legislating that power away from the legislature and the executive is just dumb.
Anybody that thinks that a law mandating balanced budgets is a good idea is sniffing sand in the style of Montoya. Of course, the REAL issue at hand is that most jurisdictions in the US NEED TO RAISE TAXES; there seems to be some sort of fundamental disconnect between the services desired and the desire to actually pay for them on the part of most of the citizenry.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #131,569
12/19/03 5:27:22 PM
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What if I do?
Can I show up as an economic refugee? I'm serious. I have skills that Canada can use. My country has no need of me and is trying to destroy my life by removing employment and witholding health care. Like others who run from horrible destructive governments, I may be forced to flee. I'll have about 5 grand for a kitty and a car. Will the country accept me?
-drl
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Post #131,614
12/19/03 10:26:35 PM
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I don't think that will fly
Instead, you should go for immigration by normal means... it'll take a few years, but there is zero likelihood that you'll come in as a refugee.
First step is to contact the nearest consulate and find out what you need to do.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #131,615
12/19/03 10:31:01 PM
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exactly
I knew that of course - we're trapped behind a wall of "freedom". No one wants Americans.
-drl
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Post #131,601
12/19/03 8:27:37 PM
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Balanced budgets are sometimes a really bad idea
In a recession government spending should go up, and revenues decline. Should both in the sense that this tends to happen, and is a desirable thing.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #131,613
12/19/03 10:23:44 PM
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Exactly.
The problem was that the boom of the late eighties was not marked by fiscal sanity; instead, the government continued to run deficits, which really screwed us in the recession of the early nineties. However, one can hope that we can put ourselves into good shape when the next bust comes along (we still have a LOT of debt to pay down).
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #131,617
12/19/03 10:41:12 PM
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On paying down debt
The more that you pay down, the easier it becomes to pay down.
In fact keeping it growing slower than inflation is enough to get this virtuous cycle started.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #131,618
12/19/03 10:42:32 PM
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Yes
The rate of debt retirement has accelerated in recent years, though with SARS, mad cow, and the fact that a substantial portion of the US has become pissed at us for not participating in Iraq has put a dint in it. However, the magic of compound interest works in both directions...
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #131,688
12/20/03 10:44:13 PM
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Re: On paying down debt
In fact keeping it growing slower than inflation is enough to get this virtuous cycle started.
That's what Clinton tried to do, and look at how he gets treated for it (including here). lincoln
"Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times
[link|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/resume.htm|VB/SQL resume]
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Post #132,725
12/30/03 3:31:24 AM
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Clinton didn't recognize a windfall
He had huge one-time income from a boom that was not sustainable. His budget planning assumed that this would go on forever.
Balancing his budget while counting on non-sustainable revenue was stupid.
The California government made the same mistake, only worse.
A piece of advice. Any large one-time source of revenue (inheritance, lottery, etc) should be treated as a small fraction of its face value. Because the best that you can do with it is invest it and take off a small fraction of the earnings each year. The worst thing that you can do (also the most common) is to expand your lifestyle to one which can only be sustained if you repeatedly get large cash infusions. When those fail to materialize, you wind up worse off than you were before.
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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