Catholic school to test ALL kids for drugs

Post #129,040 by lincoln 12/4/03 9:40:44 PM Reply	Catholic school to test ALL kids for drugs All 1,000 boys attending a Northwest Side Catholic high school will face mandatory drug screens next fall--a new requirement that lands them smack in the middle of a simmering national debate. St. Patrick High School officials said Wednesday the school will be the first high school in the Chicago area to require drug testing of all students. Recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions have upheld drug testing in public schools, but only for athletes and others involved in extracurricular activities. Parochial schools are not bound by those rulings. Students' parents will pay $60 for the test, which will use hair samples collected by school counselors to screen for all illegal drugs, including marijuana, cocaine and Ecstasy, but not steroids or alcohol. [link\|http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-0312040178dec04,1,5136803.story?coll=chi-newslocal-hed\|source] lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/resume.htm\|VB/SQL resume] [link\|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/tandem_resume.htm\|Tandem resume] [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #129,044 by broomberg 12/4/03 10:50:14 PM Reply	I'd like to see it mandatory for all schools Ben is a freshman in high school. He is aware of druggies in his school. It's just part of the environment. Why should this be accepted? Test, council, test again, put in alternative school environment, test again, expel. These are not adults. I fully support all adults right to ingest anything that will derange / kill them, as long as it doesn't affect innocent bystanders. Adult decisions by adults. Not the same as kids. If I grew up in an environment where I knew there was a good chance of getting caught for doing drugs, I probably would not have done them. I blew years of educational opportunity. Years of maturing. Never went to college. Made some really bad decisions. Because of drugs in my youth. Not the only reason, but a large impact. And I'd be very happy if the results were published, so I knew the OTHER kids in the school doing drugs. Even if I can't fix them, at least I can try to keep my kids away from them.
Post #129,055 by Silverlock 12/4/03 11:27:31 PM Reply	Let's make it mandatory in order to get a license And weekly thereafter for every citizen of the land of the free. ----------------------------------------- Democracy is not a spectator sport.
Post #129,082 by bepatient 12/5/03 10:26:53 AM Reply	Hmm...I detect.. ...a very healthy dose of sarcasm, there. Of course...its for the CHEELDRUN. Lets start down that slope of invasion of privacy at the tender young ages...that way they'll be used to it when they get older. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #129,093 by Simon_Jester 12/5/03 12:02:18 PM Reply	Do you have privacy at a school? We've been going down this slope for a LONG time. I seem to recall my locker could be opened by School Officials at any time.
Post #129,099 by orion 12/5/03 12:13:13 PM Reply	Correct, do you have privacy at work? Chances are you don't, and they are watching you, monitoring your computer with Spyware, and checking who you call on your phone. There just isn't a lot of trust and privacy out there anymore. The Schools are just the start of it. Remember the girl who got in trobule for what she wrote in her diary? It was her own private dirary, but a teacher read it and the girl got in trouble for it. What exactly are we teaching children when we say we can't trust them and that they have no privacy? *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #129,122 by bepatient 12/5/03 1:10:23 PM Reply	Just because.. ...we've been heading down that slope doesn't make it better. And your locker was >school property<. A childs hair and blood samples are NOT. Nor can any current test determine if behavior is on or off of school time. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #129,123 by jake123 12/5/03 1:12:32 PM Reply	Property rights are a wonderful thing, aren't they. While I'm a lefty, property rights are so key (they are the foundation to security of the person, after all) that any attempt to weaken them needs to be resisted. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #129,125 by bepatient 12/5/03 1:15:38 PM Reply	They are foundational. And since the US has become so litigious, we all must be extremely protective of what is ours and what happens with/to it. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #129,128 by jake123 12/5/03 1:26:10 PM Reply	One place where your (and ours, for that matter) legal system could use some work. A lot of the times it seems like the wrong lawsuits win while the right ones lose. Woman with McDonalds coffee... surprise, coffee is hot! Major polluter of ground water that destroys farmers' livelihoods... surprise, there's nothing you can do! --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #129,131 by bepatient 12/5/03 1:34:52 PM Reply	Amen to that. If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #129,073 by boxley 12/5/03 8:56:12 AM Reply	Crock o Spit If I grew up in an environment where I knew there was a good chance of getting caught for doing drugs, I probably would not have done them. I blew years of educational opportunity. Years of maturing. Never went to college. Made some really bad decisions. no one held you down and pushed snax up yer nose. I knew a lot of people who were in the area, in the groove and drug free. thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #129,084 by broomberg 12/5/03 10:40:54 AM Reply	Hehe I was a druggie missionary. It was so much fun, I spent a lot of effort sharing. Would you really want your kids exposed to me at that time frame? Your young, impressionable, easily manipulated kids? There is always a crossover time when kids simply do not make what we would call rational decisions. Hey, let's see if the 12 year old will ignore the cool 14 year old when the cool 14 year old offers him a hit. As far as the slippery slope: BS!!!!! This is not restricting the behaviour of adults based on the argument of how this behaviour may affect kids. Nice try. This is a state mandated environment (unless you have the skills / time / $$ for home school or private) which kids are thrown together, poorly supervised, away from the control of their parents.
Post #129,177 by Ashton 12/5/03 5:54:03 PM Reply	Rationalize what it Really Is, all you want - It's a popular pastime, that. This is about the puppy-dog's tail being cut off an inch at a time.. so he doesn't 'notice'. Every parent really wants: a Protective Bubble around My Kid and screw the fact of the environment, the kultur We Have Created / Condoned == The Same. IMhO. A nation of individual solipsists? Why do regular users of drugs do so? (as opposed to the usual and encouraged; inculcated! habits of standard recreational Pleasure-seekers: the very backbone of the acquisitive, consumption-oriented society which we nurture.) Usual psych extra-verbose explanations reduce to variants of ~"because they Can't Stand the milieu in which they happen to find themselves!" and will escape it At Any Cost\ufffd (Corollary - most of these feel "helpless to extricate selves from whatever that milieu's local form takes - either for financial or psychological 'lack'" - is often the second common denominator deduced.) But WTF - we Can bury that too; just another simplistic no-brainer War On ___. THAT is Who 'We' Are. First the euphemism, then the non-solution. EZ fix. Like Service Pack 2 fixes Doze. Thanks for your vote for continued homogenization of all inmates - it's sure a lot simpler than changing Root causes, I always say. Children have Rights ??? [Hah] But I calls it sophistry, in search of ferreting out any remnants of the Constitution -as are still ~working- and a standard evasion of the hard work of bringing up an autonomous kid. No Matter in What 'Milieu' cha cha cha (and.. you can't plead 'poverty' - right?) Ashton Bubbles.. blow AND suck.
Post #129,181 by broomberg 12/5/03 6:56:55 PM Reply	Even a bubble won't help Ben But I wouldn't mind trying. He's old enough to have passed the moment of not being responsible for the decision. Sara, on the other hand, still lives in the fantasy of childhood world. If I error on any side of restrictions on kids in favor of safety, I don't mind. If it is in an area where I do NOT have control, that they MUST be in, then I want it as safe a possible. All that talk about parental responsibility is worthless when your kids spend more hours away from you than with you. I've done the best I can by living in an area known for good schools and biting the bullet on taxes for them. But even these schools have a percentage of druggies that I'd like to see GONE. Am I delving into Marlowe territory for such a stance? Maybe. I'm willing to accept it.
Post #129,187 by Ashton 12/5/03 8:00:37 PM Reply	Sympathies As one with no dog in this fight, no need to next turn over an offspring to this 'thing' that substitutes for school just now - I'd be just another sanctimonious twit, if I pretended that the course is clear. No doubt you see the trade-offs, maybe even as "short term"? - and later we can fix the ugly side. But you know how such plans go, too. Afraid we'd be on opposite sides of the barricade re "All Search All the Time", as I recall how (a few, small) betrayals by Big people affected my experience of what 'trust' might mean, as a tad. And in the present Neoconman enviro - I don't think any even 'small' further loss of individual rights is.. too small to fight against. Ashton
Post #129,202 by boxley 12/5/03 10:07:17 PM Reply	I only had a dollar to live on till next sunday so I spent it all on comfort for my mind. a snowblind friend thanx, bill "You're just like me streak. You never left the free-fire zone.You think aspirins and meetings and cold showers are going to clean out your head. What you want is God's permission to paint the trees with the bad guys. That wont happen big mon." Clete questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #129,209 by broomberg 12/5/03 10:36:31 PM Reply	Huh? A dollar does not buy enough snow to make you blind.
Post #129,215 by jake123 12/5/03 11:41:35 PM Reply	Snowblind, by Steppenwolf Worth a listen. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #129,243 by deSitter 12/6/03 8:36:05 AM Reply	Acutally Hoyt Axton song He was an authority on heroin addiction, being an addict himself. He also co-authored "The Pusher", a virulent anti-drug anthem. Despite their bad-attitude stage presence, Steppenwolf were actually a cerebral band that eschewed excess and "the lifestyle". The frontman, John Kay, was an Iron Curtain refugee who had landed in Canada with his family. Something about Canada causes people to become musical - the list is endless. Hoyt Axton was a genial giant whose magnificent baritone voice was everywhere in advertising up until his early death in 1999. [link\|http://www.sixcats.com/axton/hoyt.htm\|http://www.sixcats.com/axton/hoyt.htm] He wrote songs for everyone from Elvis to Three Dog Night. He's the most widely infuential unknown in rock history. -drl
Post #129,100 by orion 12/5/03 12:17:14 PM Reply	Being drug free I was offered when I was a child and teenager in school, and I always turned it down. I got invited to parties where drugs would be and I turned down the invitation. I wasn't very popular because of it and I had few friends, but at least I was drug free. I have a clear conscience on that. Many kids did it and got away with it too. You could tell them by the glassy look in their eyes, or they would hide their eyes with sunglasses, and would be clumbsy and always had a smile on their faces. I found I couldn't trust someone who always smiled, it was a good sign that they were on something. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #129,048 by orion 12/4/03 11:14:03 PM Reply	So much for trust trust just went out of the window. Make sure they don't eat any poppy seeds before taking those tests. Or any other false positives. Not that I am for drugs, but this is getting out of hand. What if the parents cannot afford the $60 to testing? Does their child get expelled for not taking the test? What if the child is on perscription drugs that are federally controlled because they are narcotics due to a medical conditon. Could the test tell the difference between the perscrip[tion drug and a real narcotic? Before you say "But what do they have to hide?" consider this: You shop at a store, and then ten security gaurds surrond you and one of them says "We've had a problem with shoplifters recently, so now every 5th customer gets stripped searched and body cavity searched. You are the fifth customer, now submit to the searches or we will press charges against you for shoplifting." Would you submit to the searches? If not, what do you have to hide? Drug use is hard to hide anyway, you can tell by a child's reactions and behavior most of the time if they are on drugs. Use testing when you suspect the child of being on drugs, but for pity's sake don't test every child. Consider the cost, consider the time wasted, and consider the invasion of privacy to the children who are not on drugs but have to take the test anyway. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*
Post #129,210 by lincoln 12/5/03 10:38:25 PM Reply	One nit What if the parents cannot afford the $60 to testing? St. Pat's is a private school run by the Catholic archdiocese of Chicago; I'm guessing tuition, books, uniforms, etc. run about $2000 annually per student. Parents send their kids here BY CHOICE. If, after all of the fees, they can't afford the extra $60, then they're stretching their finances way too thin in the first place. I'm sure the school will let the parents make payments for their child's test. Besides, the school is announcing this 9 months in advance to give next year's students and parents fair warning. lincoln "Windows XP has so many holes in its security that any reasonable user will conclude it was designed by the same German officer who created the prison compound in "Hogan's Heroes." - Andy Ihnatko, Chicago Sun-Times [link\|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/resume.htm\|VB/SQL resume] [link\|http://users3.ev1.net/~bconnors/tandem_resume.htm\|Tandem resume] [link\|mailto:bconnors@ev1.net\|contact me]
Post #129,140 by tuberculosis 12/5/03 1:49:14 PM Reply	Employers now testing all new employees At least as far as I can tell. Read a book called Nickel and Dimed - a woman tries to make it in the US on minimum wage just to see if she can and writes about it. According to her, the average company pays about $50,000 drug user when you factor in the cost of negative tests per once in a blue moon positive. Sign of the times. Oh, and when I went to HS - they were required to provide advance notice of locker searches (and did several times - searches were to "locate missing library books" but there was generally at least 48 hours notice). "I believe that many of the systems we build today in Java would be better built in Smalltalk and Gemstone." -- Martin Fowler, JAOO 2003
Post #129,188 by Ashton 12/5/03 8:01:56 PM Reply	Still waiting.. for Kurt V. to tell us What We Are, now.

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