Post #128,355
12/1/03 6:22:22 PM
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That ISN'T what the season's about
That you think so is the result of centuries of Christian propaganda, and their custom of finding Christian explanations for existing pagan rituals.
Which of the following have a pagan root? Giving gifts. Christmas trees. Mistletoe... (The correct answer, of course, is all of the above.)
Several sects of Christianity go further. They point out that the description in the Bible of Jesus' birth says nothing about midwinter. It says plenty about lambs being born etc. And so they insist on placing Jesus' birthday in spring, not at Christmas.
I have no real opinion on whether they are justified in that decision. I'm not a Christian, and so it isn't really my place to care. But I have a definite opinion on the season's place in our culture. And my reason for celebrating "Christmas", just like the reasons of all of the pagans from whom we draw most of our Christmas traditions, have nothing to do with Jesus or any other religious figure of no importance to me.
Regards,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #128,359
12/1/03 6:33:29 PM
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Re: That ISN'T what the season's about
I would say that everyone has their own reasons for celebrating Christmas. For Christians, like me, it IS about Jesus and his birth. Maybe he was not really born in the winter time, but since it isn't completely known to the exact date, that is what was adopted for whatever reason.
But celebrating Christmas, for Christians, anyway, isn't about gifts, trees or mistletoe. What it really is about for them is the gift of God's Son to save them. The other things, trees, cards, decorations, etc, are part of the world's view of celebrating Christmas, and can be integrated into the Christian view of it as long as the focus stays on the birth of Christ.
However, in regards to the sign that started this thread, I see it more that the poster depicts Jesus with the CD halo and price tag, as a way to demonstrate to the Christians that they have FORGOTTEN about Jesus being the "reason for the season" for Christians. And possibly a way to demonstrate to the world the Christian view of Christmas. The CD halo and price tag are showing the world's attempts to obscure the "true" meaning of Christmas (as held by those aforementioned Christians).
But just to be fair also, I know of Christians that did NOT celebrate Christmas on December 25th, or at all in any commercial sense. I knew one lady who was so adamant that there was no "day" to celebrate Christ's birth, that if you sent her a Christmas card, it had better say something about "Happy Holidays" (Winter Solstice, New Years Eve), or "Season's Greetings" (Winter wishes). If it said Christmas anywhere, she was hotly insulted.
Ironically, before even READING this thread today, I had awakened thinking about all the Christmas cards I meticulously picked out and stacked up in a nice ordered pile to write soon, and that woman came to mind, as I wondered where she is today and how she is... she's since moved out of my life for other reasons.
Funny how life imitates thought or memory.
Nightowl >8#
"The difference between being immature and child-like is that one is what you are, and one is what you choose to be."
Comment by Nightowl {O,O}
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Post #128,360
12/1/03 6:39:33 PM
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Further evidence.
Jesus (if such a person actually existed - evidence lies very thin on the ground) was born at tax time. Tax time during the Roman Empire was in the spring, same as now.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #128,618
12/3/03 11:47:42 AM
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Some people place Jesus's birth in April
but that would be too close to Easter, when Jesus died and rose from the dead. So they had to find another season to place Christmas in. Seems like December was a better choice, near Haunaka and other celebrations from other religions. Of course it looks like some things were borrowed from other religions as well. Trees, Mistletoe, Gifts, Elves, Santa's magic to name a few. Problem is that these things make people forget about Jesus. Ask a child about Christmas and they will respond Satna Claus instead of Jesus most of the time. Why? Because it isn't Jesus giving them gifts, it is Santa Claus. To them Jesus is that baby born in the Manger placed under the tree. The one that the Wise Men or Three Kings gave gifts to.
"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"
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Post #128,361
12/1/03 6:44:44 PM
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Oh, I'm aware of that...
...just didn't want to peel it down that far just yet. ;)
I have a red sign on my door. It says "If this sign is blue, you're going too fast."
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Post #128,437
12/2/03 3:45:38 AM
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Specific reason for Christmas
As Christianity was replacing the former Roman worship scheme, somthing was needed to placate traditionalists - thus the mid-winter "Saturnalia" got morphed into what is now Christmas.
-drl
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Post #128,442
12/2/03 3:58:27 AM
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Reminds me of this
[link|http://www.e-sheep.com/Saturnalia/|http://www.e-sheep.com/Saturnalia/]
Warning, As the site says:
This comic contains nudity, cartoon sex, and historical factoids which might be considered blasphemous to certain religions. If such things disturb you, you probably shouldn't read this.
--
Chris Altmann
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Post #128,444
12/2/03 4:17:08 AM
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Pretty weird
Reminds me of R. Crumb.
A somewhat less pagan explanation:
[link|http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/holidays/christmas/real2.html|http://www.historych...istmas/real2.html]
[link|http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa111699.htm|http://ancienthistor...ekly/aa111699.htm]
The basic lesson is that excess is fine if confined to a narrow festival time, which is what almost everyone unconsciously does with the holiday season. Personally, I love the gaudy decorations, lights, extra tasty booze and food, but can do without the shopping. And my very favorite thing is midnight service and music on Christmas Eve - celebration and spirituality should not be separated.
Celebrations tied to the cycle of seasons exist in every culture. It's as natural as sleeping and eating.
-drl
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Post #128,521
12/2/03 7:21:51 PM
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Winter solstice is the reason for the season.
bcnu,
Mikem
Java, Junk. Both start with a "J", both have four letters. Coincidence? I think not.
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Post #131,239
12/17/03 2:41:37 PM
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All it means is
that Microsoft has a long way to go before it can usurp the true masters of "Embrace and Extend" -- the Roman Catholic Church.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?"
- Edward Young
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Post #131,267
12/17/03 5:09:31 PM
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Ecumenical LRPD: " Thank GOD you finished that sentence."
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