Balderdash

Post #126,013 by Ashton 11/17/03 9:46:17 AM Reply	Balderdash You are wrong, notwithstanding apoplexy: Karsten was fucking DEMOTED. "derooted" in IT-glyph. He did not 'volunteer' Later, he acknowledged that his own 'de-listing' action was suficient grounds.. He did not volunteer. In order to determine that Karsten was NOT treated unfairly, one now must: Read through a plethora of allegations on the List, allegations of self-serving motives on a variety of levels + noise from interjected ad-hominems and private exchanges. From that, one has to infer the precise Admin steps actually taken, when and why: NONE OF WHICH ought to be public bizness unless and until an aggrieved party Makes It So - by complaining. Can't you read your dictionary: gossip: idle talk and rumours about others. Imputing motive is the most egregious form of That shit: Such as: "that Karsten was using the list for personal purposes". Not only unsubstantiated but - false, unless "creating a service for all to use" is 'personal'. [And I don't give a shit How popular? unused? might have been the service] - there never was a plebiscite on that question, just a few violently opposed, and arguing about a trivial number of validation posts per YEAR. That factoid seemed incomprehensible to, for ex: (And the common catalyst re Karsten's 'motives' in both '02 and '03) B. Barclay: whose (speaking of 'personal appropriation') repeated, irritating self-promoting messages about "J-Sink or whatever" -- I did not trouble to protest to the sacred-List. Irresponsible moi. Yes of course - nobody removed K. from IWE login except K.. And unarguably some of his actions, in fits of petulance, fatigue? - are also indefensible. None of that is clear without tedious dissection AND private corrspondence. Later, it was iluminating to see the v. high regard for the Boolean twitterings of an avian member: as-if, properly arrayed - the comparative-opinion pieces might be, yes parsed into Revealed Truth. Bull Shit. Obv somewhere, underlying all that innuendo - resides a modicum of truth: but you (or anyone) would need to know not a few unpublished things to identify it amidst all that speculative noise. > Having now seen a sufficiency of how IT sausage is made, I suggest that all future promotion and demotion ceremonies be held at a whisper in a darkened room, off-line, off-list and in Swahili - with the records ceremonially burned (and stirred). White smoke / black smoke. WHAT fucking "promotion and demotion ceremonies" are you blathering about?!? See. Above. Gawd you can be studiously dense, when practicing Dudgeon Lessons! Since.. there was never any "zIWE" related punishments? - banning and such like involved here: WHY WAS THIS NOT DONE OFF LINE? It belongs in IWE only AFTER all Admin negotiations among themselves has failed. Then, an aggrieved party can publically post and.. let the IT-fotainment commence. I believe that the manner in which the he-said / didn't / did / BS was intermixed with the triggering complaint (full of innuendo) from a handful on this List: guaranteed that just such a brouhaha would transpire. Your conclusions may bloody well be correct as to the events, but So What.. after an unnecessary mess has devolved into a blame game? You couldn't know that except from others, and privately. But then, maybe you enjoy the thrill of the chase; it really has been a screenplay out of FOX. And a bloody waste of time and emotions. That's my opinion. If you don't like it, why - to coin a phrase Shut the fuck up.
Post #126,015 by bepatient 11/17/03 9:58:24 AM Reply	And one more to add to the list. Since.. there was never any "zIWE" related punishments? - banning and such like involved here: WHY WAS THIS NOT DONE OFF LINE? Karsten brought it here. For the first and only well-reasoned explanation of his quest...right before he gathered his toys and told us "I'm never going to play with you again". (Subsequent follow-ups were more direct...as so alluded) If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. _{Fudd's First Law of Opposition} [link\|mailto:bepatient@aol.com\|BePatient]
Post #126,027 by Nightowl 11/17/03 10:53:47 AM 11/17/03 10:55:56 AM Reply	Re: And YET one more to add to the list. Ashton, you YOURSELF asked for INPUT in the "Anyone else care to cast a ballot" statement. I gave input. I've tried to end this discussion twice, three times now? I've lost count, honestly. And personally, I feel that all that is happening now by dragging it on and on is the following: a) Doing Karsten a serious disservice, as he wanted me to either drop it or fix it, and fixing it isn't something I can do. b) Subjecting all the other members AND Admins here to more and more branches of the ever rapidly growing thorn bush thread. c) Failing to work towards the real goal many have, (I think I have gleaned this correctly), which is to try and get Karsten to return. and d) Pissing me off, which is really hard to do. Further discourse on the topic is not solving anything, not helping anything, and in my opinion, causing even more harm, lest that other members of ziwethey enter into the argument more vehemently, and start taking sides and splinter into factions. This could ultimately cause the whole group to break up into two halves or more... do YOU REALLY WANT THAT????? If your regard for this group (iwethey) is as high as I've always believed it to be, you would see what I'm saying and stop beating the topic to death. Regarding another thread here, I didn't miss your point, I deliberately chose not to FIND IT, as you have been doing with all of mine. Anyway... nuff said. Nightowl >8# P.S. Your posts don't scare me anymore Ashton, I wised up. "The difference between being immature and child-like is that one is what you are, and one is what you choose to be." Comment by Nightowl {O,O} Edited by Nightowl Nov. 17, 2003, 10:54:25 AM EST Edited by Nightowl Nov. 17, 2003, 10:55:56 AM EST Expand All History
Post #126,033 by pwhysall 11/17/03 11:15:35 AM Reply	Admin steps taken. Immediately upon realising what Karsten had done (unsubbed Mike Huber) I wrote to Rob and then separately to Karsten asking the one to remove Karsten from the listadmins and informing the other of said request. Having one's admin status removed for arbitrary unsubscribing of list members who dare to argue with you is not something that merits discussion. It's what happens. It was done off-list, in private. Karsten was treated ABSOLUTELY fairly. Whatever he did subsequently had nothing to do with the list admins. In the final analysis, what we're discussing is one of the larger internet hissy fits I've seen. Karsten has been scathing in criticism of others in the past and yet when exposed to some blistering criticism heading in his direction, he flounces off like a sulky 10-year old. And finally: the website registrations were not the point. The amount of list traffic generated or not was irrelevant. What was the point was that Karsten did not bother to take the time to ask the list members. And yes, you do have to ask before fooling around with the list. It's called "manners", something which seems to have been forgotten in the who's right/who's wrong debate. Peter [link\|http://www.debian.org\|Shill For Hire] [link\|http://www.kuro5hin.org\|There is no K5 Cabal] [link\|http://guildenstern.dyndns.org\|Blog]
Post #126,232 by orion 11/18/03 1:06:05 AM Reply	Even I can see that Karsten left in fact I got an email from him saying that he left and won't be back. I wrote to him asking if he was going to leave, and he said he was. He cited problems with the other Admins and the whole Groupthink thing that IWETHEY members seem to have. Even with my muddled mind and reading comprehension disabilities, I could plainly understand that Karsten left on his own. Sure the other people attacked him, and talked about what he did, but Karsten made the decision to leave, nobody else did. Someone may have suggested it it him, but it was ultimately his decision. I wish him good luck where ever he goes and what ever he does. It is a matter of perception, others had the perception that Karsten was using the mailing list for personal things. My perception was that he was using it to get Internet Registrations for those that didn't want to give our their personal info. Should have used a free web mail account for that and avoided the whole thing, but he chose to use the mailing list address. That is what started the whole issue. Mistakes got made, but they could have been corrected. *"Lady I only speak two languages, English and Bad English!" - Corbin Dallas "The Fifth Element"*

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