Stupid Object Asskiss Protocol

Post #122,036 by tuberculosis 10/20/03 2:13:48 PM Reply	Stupid Object Asskiss Protocol In Java, you can't escape the creepy feeling. --James Gosling
Post #122,054 by ChrisR 10/20/03 4:13:34 PM Reply	SOAP is one those decent ideas... ...that quickly got muddled - like much of XML. The MS habit of passing around stuff in binary form makes the case for readibility and loose coupling an early casualty. Might be just me, but reading SOAP calls (to & fro) gives me a headache as what is supposed to be a fairly straightforward arrangement gets really muddled in the details. As long as we're at it, why not Java RMI? Guess that's implicit within the suggestion of JNI?
Post #122,065 by ben_tilly 10/20/03 4:49:41 PM Reply	A decent idea? One of the key arguments for SOAP from the start was as a way to get around those pesky firewalls. They also admitted that security was something that SOAP did not address. Technologies which are meant to get around security solutions while not addressing security problems do not qualify as decent ideas in my book. Companies (like Microsoft) which have a history of pushing these qualify as problems. Cheers, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #122,073 by ChrisR 10/20/03 5:09:00 PM Reply	Valid complaint But you still have problems with authentication if you roll your own socket scheme. And authentication is not part of JMS, though the vendors implement their own in the connection.
Post #122,090 by Arkadiy 10/20/03 7:00:33 PM Reply	In fairness, authentication and encription is supposed to be provided by the underlying layer, HTTP. MS uses SSL for encription and NT proprietary crap for authentication, HTTP's own being to weak. -- OK, George W. is deceptive to be sure. Dissembling, too. And let's not forget deceitful. He is lacking veracity and frankness, and void of sooth, though seemingly sincere in his proclivity for pretense. But he did not lie. [link\|http://www.jointhebushwhackers.com/not_a_liar.cfm\|Brian Wimer]
Post #122,088 by tuberculosis 10/20/03 6:52:00 PM Reply	No, she's a dog Actually, watching the webservices crowd define their stuff is like reliving the CORBA stuff. Next we'll need authentication, then transactions.... Mind you - I invented SOAP messaging with attachements (later polished up and claimed by MS) to solve problems with document processing submissions while at eTranslate. I still think the attachment solution was good, but the SOAP format itself is ridiculous overkill. Plus the crowd that was early adopters were every bit as pig headed as a C++ elitist in the early 90's. In Java, you can't escape the creepy feeling. --James Gosling

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