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New You'd be amazed...
at how a couple of screaming me-me's can affect TFR's (which these days are not so damned temporary). There were and are all kinds of "National Security" TFR's around the country. The fact that AOPA has to constantly inform people that GA is not a threat is ridiculous. I said you should tell the NRC because few people have your perspective when it comes to small GA aircraft (that is, few non-pilot/non-a & p's/etc. understand that GA was never and will never be the problem).

AOPA is worried. I'm the AOPA's ASN Volunteer for C62 and let me tell you, they and all the GA pilots I know are worried that folks like the two mentioned in the article are getting entirely too much say in how our airspace is handled - (again, the basis of my urging you to run your view by the NRC).

There are two TFR's in Indiana that are years old, for instance. How "temporary" is that? And for what? If I fly my 172 into these areas (while I've still got one) guess what happens? I get intercepted by a pair of F-16's. How's that for getting huge bang for your tax-payer dollar? Then, because I am suspected of terrorism, I can get locked up indefinitely. Why? Because I flew my dangerous attack Cessna too close to a nuke plant. It is that ridiculous. Nice to hear some one who doesn't fly concur ;-)



FDC 1/0661 ZID IN.. FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS NEWPORT, IN. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. PURSUANT TO TITLE 14 CFR SECTION 91.137A(1) TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT DUE TO NATIONAL SECURITY ARE NOT AUTHORIZED WITHIN A 5 NAUTICAL MILES RADIUS OF 395100N/0872518W OR THE TERRE HAUTE /TTH/ VORTAC 335 DEGREE RADIAL AT 23 NAUTICAL MILES AT AND BELOW 5000 FEET AGL TO PROVIDE FOR A SAFE ENVIRONMENT FOR DOD OPERATIONS. TERRE HAUTE AFSS /HUF/ 812-877-7530 IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. [See graphic.]
[Plain-language guidance: Temporary Flight Restrictions are in place prohibiting flights for a 5 NM radius at and below 5000 ft AGL, centered on a point 23 NM from the Terre Haute VORTAC off from the 335-degree radial (Terre Haute, IN).]

2/2183 - IN.. FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS CRANE, IN. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FUTHER NOTICE. PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 91.137A(2) TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT WITHIN A 5 NAUTICAL MILE RADIUS OF 385021.4N/864831.1W AND THE HOOSIER /OOM/ VORTAC 209 DEGREE RADIAL AT 20.4 NAUTICAL MILES AT AND BELOW 5000 FT AGL TO PROVIDE A SAFE ENVIRONMENT FOR NATIONAL SECURITY. MR DAVID BROWN, DEPARTMENT OF NAVY, TELEPHONE 812-854-3581, IS IN CHARGE OF ON SCENE EMERGENCY RESPONSE ACTIVITIES. TERRE HAUTE /HUF/ AFSS, TELEPHONE 812-877-7530, IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY. WIE UNTIL UFN [See graphic.]
[Plain-language guidance: Temporary Flight Restrictions are in place prohibiting flights for a 5 NM radius at and below 5000 ft AGL, centered on a point 20.4 NM from the Hoosier VORTAC off from the 209-degree radial (Crane, IN).]

bcnu,
Mikem

The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.

- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
New Re: You'd be amazed...
1655 ...SPECIAL NOTICE... FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS. EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE, PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 99.7, SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS, PILOTS CONDUCTING FLIGHT OPERATIONS WITHIN THE TERRITORIAL AIRSPACE OF THE U.S. ARE ADVISED TO AVOID THE AIRSPACE ABOVE OR IN PROXIMITY TO ALL NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS. PILOTS SHOULD NOT CIRCLE OR LOITER IN THE VICINITY OF SUCH FACILITIES. PILOTS WHO DO SO CAN EXPECT TO BE INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL AT THEIR DESTINATION AIRPORT AND THE PILOT''S NAME MAY BE ADDED TO THE TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION (TSA) INCIDENT REPORTING SYSTEM. WIE UNTIL UFN [See graphic. (Graphic courtesy of www.nrc.gov; it is not all inclusive.)]


Doesn't sound like worry. Sounds like prudence.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New ?
So I should just "watch what I say, watch what I do" even in the people's air, right?
bcnu,
Mikem

The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.

- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
New Not quite...
...its more like...avoid doing this (and circling a nuclear facility would be an obvious thing to avoid) and everything is cool...if you do NOT avoid doing this...please expect us to have a few questions for you afterwards.

Since when is it the "people's air"? Is that something that you expect to be different than say..."territorial waters"?

If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New It is the people's air
just like you can take your boat anywhere you want in territorial waters.

It's called mobility rights, and they are a very important part of the package of basic civil rights in a free society.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New But would I not...
...expect to be looked at somewhat suspiciously if I happen to park said boat in front of a nuclear sub facility...or should I be allowed to park it in the center of a shipping channel?

You are certainly allowed to use the airspace...however you are required to be licensed and you must meet certain requirements to operate inside said "air".

So while you consider it a "right"...it is pretty much handled as a priviledge (much like drivers licensing) and can have (and does) a certain measure of control over it dictated by the state.
If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. Fudd's First Law of Opposition

[link|mailto:bepatient@aol.com|BePatient]
New Not Xactly.
Owner built aircraft do not require the pilot to hold a license to fly in the nation's airspace. We're talking about "uncontrolled airspace" here, not some Class C or monster Class B airspace.

It is "ours" in much the same way as the airwaves used to be "ours".
bcnu,
Mikem

The soul and substance of what customarily ranks as patriotism is moral cowardice and always has been...We have thrown away the most valuable asset we had-- the individual's right to oppose both flag and country when he (just he, by himself) believed them to be in the wrong. We have thrown it away; and with it all that was really respectable about that grotesque and laughable word, Patriotism.

- Mark Twain, "Monarchical and Republican Patriotism"
     Is this a '5th Column' found within US Army ? - (dmarker) - (37)
         If so, not the first one. - (a6l6e6x) - (2)
             and Hansen? Or do mormons get a free pass? -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                 Hansen was FBI, not military. - (a6l6e6x)
         Hard to say from what I have seen - (JayMehaffey) - (9)
             Amen to that sentiment. -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (7)
                 Big question - (jake123) - (6)
                     The process needs to be open. -NT - (a6l6e6x) - (4)
                         Doesn't mean it will be - (jake123) - (3)
                             Military Court Martial - (jbrabeck) - (2)
                                 Fertile ground for speculation - (jake123) - (1)
                                     Every repressive regime requires a Bonhoeffer to appear - (Ashton)
                     Trial? What makes you think we still do that? -NT - (mmoffitt)
             dreyfus case? -NT - (boxley)
         Another Airman charged as spy for Syria - (JayMehaffey)
         Third Gitmo related arrest - (JayMehaffey) - (22)
             This is America. - (mmoffitt) - (19)
                 Hey...wait... - (bepatient) - (18)
                     You might want to run that by... - (mmoffitt) - (8)
                         Huh? - (bepatient) - (7)
                             You'd be amazed... - (mmoffitt) - (6)
                                 Re: You'd be amazed... - (bepatient) - (5)
                                     ? - (mmoffitt) - (4)
                                         Not quite... - (bepatient) - (3)
                                             It is the people's air - (jake123) - (2)
                                                 But would I not... - (bepatient) - (1)
                                                     Not Xactly. - (mmoffitt)
                     Not a Cessna; an ultralight instead - (bbronson) - (8)
                         Amen. And, btw, ... - (mmoffitt) - (7)
                             Birds don't have nosewheels, either, so... - (bbronson) - (6)
                                 Man, I almost envy you. - (mmoffitt) - (5)
                                     No cross countries yet - (bbronson) - (4)
                                         If it isn't 50 nm, it isn't. - (mmoffitt) - (3)
                                             It's 70 nm from KUES to KMTW - (bbronson) - (2)
                                                 Cool. Have fun. - (mmoffitt) - (1)
                                                     Thanks. Already had airnav bookmarked! Great site - (bbronson)
             Re: Third Gitmo related arrest - (deSitter) - (1)
                 You may also recall that the identities of the prisoners is - (a6l6e6x)

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