Post #113,474
8/11/03 1:49:45 PM
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Suspicion
From what I know[1] of such things it's probably not a military type secrecy. Those operating under corporate secrecy will tell you that they can't tell you what they do. Military secrecy tends to come with a plausible cover story. Unless you're going to be writing control software for Los Alamos, in which case military and civilian use tends to overlap somewhat.
Keep in mind that much of what I know comes from reading Tom Clancy and either asking people I knew in the Marines how close it tracked reality, or comparing it to the training manuals I had myself.
In other words I have nothing constructive to add to this conversation. :)
[1] Or rather "what I suspect is true", for rather obvious reasons.
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #113,475
8/11/03 1:59:03 PM
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Re: Suspicion
Military secrecy tends to come with a plausible cover story. Unless you're going to be writing control software for Los Alamos, in which case military and civilian use tends to overlap somewhat. Yep, Los Alamos employs both civilian and military, and they do overlap at times. But there is still a high level of secrecy. My husband was working there once with a high security clearance. His dad still works for the lab, albeit now from home, but he also has certain security standards to uphold. And his mom and stepmom also work there. I don't know what his stepmom does, but his mom is in explosives, and she is almost NEVER allowed to tell us what she is up to. ;) And I'm speaking from experience. I know all these people, and get the info firsthand. In fact, when the Lee thing exploded, it scared some of his family because they not only knew him, they worked with him. Fortunately, the investigation into John's family's background turned up nothing connecting them in the spying issue. Nightowl >8# "I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum"
Comment by Nightowl
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Post #113,504
8/11/03 6:19:58 PM
8/11/03 6:55:06 PM
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Ummm - tilt.
First, I think it's likely still the case that - revealing {the fact? of} one's "high" security status - is itself a No-No. For obv. reasons - whom shall we snatch today and subject to our Revealed-Truth Merck\ufffd serum? We from Evull Oceania...
Implying that one who is/was possessed of (possessed-by?) such 'credentials' is both an intimate AND a confidante! of certain factoids - sets one up for a visit from a spookish (as opposed to a bookish) type. (And that 'ol Constitution ain't around anymore - to ensure a modicum of common sense - Remember? PATRIOT-I repealed a fair part; wait'll ya see PATRIOT-II)
As In WW-II:
Loose Lips Sink Ships cha cha cha
ie knowing who Has the Seecruts can be.. as valuable as the 'secrets', in the brave New PharmChem World we raced so willingly, naively to Embrace, Extend and [many know the Next word].
(But You don't:) 'Extinguish' - it's a Billy Gates Microsoftian sort of concept. Get it?
This: especially! in a time of spoon-fed Daily Paranoia - the stuff of keeping the massively-disinterested public distracted, from ever looking very closely at - The Neoconmen Behind that Curtain.. y'know?
ie - maybe you wanna appeal to Scott to sorta delete the above?
Edit: AND This One too.
Just a thought,
Ashton
ex-LBL - badge color unstated.
(I ain't afeared - I just don't really much care about the Insider cachet Game)
Or in the (now approximate) words of one Tat San / Tan Sat(?)
The Two Important rules for success in life:
1) Never tell everything you know
Edited by Ashton
Aug. 11, 2003, 06:55:06 PM EDT
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Post #113,506
8/11/03 6:36:49 PM
8/11/03 6:38:37 PM
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Re: Ummm - tilt.
Ah. Regarding Los Alamos, I never said who the people are, thus no one knows. You don't know my real name, and you don't know theirs. Plus, John worked there so long ago it is a mute point. But Scott can delete it if he thinks he should.
As for my post about the B-12, also Scott can delete it if he thinks he should, but since the B-12 never flew, was never built, and etc, all secrecy surrounding it ended. Plus, all I ever knew was the part numbers, not much help to anyone there.
Nightowl >8#
"I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum"
Comment by Nightowl
Edited by Nightowl
Aug. 11, 2003, 06:38:37 PM EDT
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Post #113,538
8/11/03 10:21:00 PM
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I forgot most of what I knew
and what I knew is so outdated now. Even if I could remember the secrets they told me, they would be useless in modern times.
Anyone who tries to get secrets out of me, gets that quote from the movie "1941" by Slim Pickens, "You ain't getting sh*t outta me, I've been constapated for weeks and there aren't a dang thing you can do about it!"
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Post #113,481
8/11/03 2:28:03 PM
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Military secrecy
I used to work as a Federal Contractor, what the Army told us they only told us enough to work on the programs and databases, nothing more like what they use them for. Always using code words and acronymns, which change from time to time. It might be called one thing one month, and then change to something else the next month. But it is virtually the same thing with some minor changes.
The only thing I didn't like about the job was the politics between the Federal Workers and the Federal Contractors. They saw us as greedy corporate types who were out to steal their jobs. But the fact was that many of them had good jobs and didn't want to do certain things, so they hired contractors to cover for them and do what they didn't want to do. Like design programs and databases, etc.
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Post #113,482
8/11/03 2:32:46 PM
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Re: Military secrecy
Yep, I relate to that. I used to work for McDonnell Douglas, and it was back when they were trying to build the B-12 Stealth Bomber (I hope that's the right name, they kept changing it).
Most of the departments didn't know what the other departments were doing. I had a Top-Secret security clearance, and I was like one of the only people who knew EVERY part number for the plane, because I had to put together the files to give the designers and graphic people and sheet metal people the plans to put the parts together.
They made me make changes daily, first use this many bolts, no, this many, no this many. Change this shape of this wing, etc. I think the stupid plane failed because no one could decide how to build it. LOL!
Nightowl >8#
"I learned to be the door, instead of the mat!" "illegitimi nil carborundum"
Comment by Nightowl
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Post #113,484
8/11/03 2:46:14 PM
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Re: Military secrecy
Usually the higher ups like the Generals or the Managers knew everything about the project and could co-ordinate the workers into working on the fragments that made up the project.
The law firm I worked at was a lot worse than that, I was given minimual details, so vauge that even Sherlock Holmes couldn't figure them out. When I asked coworkers they usually gave me a "I dunno" answer and shrugged their shoulders, and many of them were in meetings about it that I was not invited to. So it took some extra thinking and guesswork to get the job done, but a lot slower than had I actually had the full details that I needed to get the job done.
My last job was with a small business that had virtually no rules or guidelines for programming, just a coworker who called me "An idiot" when my programming style was not the same as hers. She also kept changing the database column and table names, so it made my job harder. We went from Access to SQL Server, so I removed the spaces in the table and column names to keep compatability, but she made me change them back. The owner of the company kept telling her that we were coworkers, but she continued to be bossy right up to the day I was let go. She was verbally abusive, she ignored what I suggested for the programs, and about three other coworkers had tried to work with her before developing software, and quit and went back to their old jobs.
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Post #113,501
8/11/03 5:48:34 PM
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financial and insurance industries are also quiet
for the obvious reasons. The best reason not to let on is that the entire world can read this thread and narrowing how to have strangers find you might not be such a good idea.
thanx,
bill
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
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Post #113,778
8/14/03 2:58:35 AM
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Umm...
People familiar with my history can guess that there may be reasons why I would want to keep my employer and internet presence somewhat separated.
If you don't remember the details, then let it drop...
Cheers,
Ben
"good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not"
- [link|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html|Stefano Mazzocchi]
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Post #113,784
8/14/03 8:15:54 AM
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I do, and will
===
Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
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Post #113,867
8/15/03 8:10:45 AM
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I remember too.
Is it enough to love
Is it enough to breathe
Somebody rip my heart out
And leave me here to bleed
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Is it enough to die
Somebody save my life
I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary
Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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