Yes and it is a joke

First off - it assumes you can reasonably estimate the duration of the tasks you have to perform. Second it assumes you can even identify all of the tasks up front. This is all well and good for barn building. Not so hot for software development. In fact, its completely wrong.

The cool thing about eXtreme Programming is you intuitively move forward in small steps and you generally get there with close to a minimal amount of wasted effort. The bummer is that you CANNOT predict with any accuracy the duration of the project overall. This drive M$ Project devotees absolutely batty.

A recent employer moved a guy who couldn't code his way out of a paper bag to project "tracker" which somehow during a management coup became project "manager". We took to calling him 'clippy' because all he did was email us M$ Project files to fill in with tasks and durations - which he then collated and presented to upper mgt.

Anytime I see "Wanted: Software Project Manager - Skills: MS Project" - I know its not someplace I want to work.

Post #112,600 by tuberculosis 8/4/03 10:34:58 AM 8/21/07 6:31:15 AM Reply	Yes and it is a joke First off - it assumes you can reasonably estimate the duration of the tasks you have to perform. Second it assumes you can even identify all of the tasks up front. This is all well and good for barn building. Not so hot for software development. In fact, its completely wrong. The cool thing about eXtreme Programming is you intuitively move forward in small steps and you generally get there with close to a minimal amount of wasted effort. The bummer is that you CANNOT predict with any accuracy the duration of the project overall. This drive M$ Project devotees absolutely batty. A recent employer moved a guy who couldn't code his way out of a paper bag to project "tracker" which somehow during a management coup became project "manager". We took to calling him 'clippy' because all he did was email us M$ Project files to fill in with tasks and durations - which he then collated and presented to upper mgt. Anytime I see "Wanted: Software Project Manager - Skills: MS Project" - I know its not someplace I want to work. Smalltalk is dangerous. It is a drug. My advice to you would be don't try it; it could ruin your life. Once you take the time to learn it (to REALLY learn it) you will see that there is nothing out there (yet) to touch it. Of course, like all drugs, how dangerous it is depends on your character. It may be that once you've got to this stage you'll find it difficult (if not impossible) to "go back" to other languages and, if you are forced to, you might become an embittered character constantly muttering ascerbic comments under your breath. Who knows, you may even have to quit the software industry altogether because nothing else lives up to your new expectations. --AndyBower Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:31:15 AM EDT Yes and it is a joke First off - it assumes you can reasonably estimate the duration of the tasks you have to perform. Second it assumes you can even identify all of the tasks up front. This is all well and good for barn building. Not so hot for software development. In fact, its completely wrong. The cool thing about eXtreme Programming is you intuitively move forward in small steps and you generally get there with close to a minimal amount of wasted effort. The bummer is that you CANNOT predict with any accuracy the duration of the project overall. This drive M$ Project devotees absolutely batty. A recent employer moved a guy who couldn't code his way out of a paper bag to project "tracker" which somehow during a management coup became project "manager". We took to calling him 'clippy' because all he did was email us M$ Project files to fill in with tasks and durations - which he then collated and presented to upper mgt. Anytime I see "Wanted: Software Project Manager - Skills: MS Project" - I know its not someplace I want to work. Smalltalk is dangerous. It is a drug. My advice to you would be don't try it; it could ruin your life. Once you take the time to learn it (to REALLY learn it) you will see that there is nothing out there (yet) to touch it. Of course, like all drugs, how dangerous it is depends on your character. It may be that once you've got to this stage you'll find it difficult (if not impossible) to "go back" to other languages and, if you are forced to, you might become an embittered character constantly muttering ascerbic comments under your breath. Who knows, you may even have to quit the software industry altogether because nothing else lives up to your new expectations. --AndyBower Collapse All History
Post #112,602 by drewk 8/4/03 10:48:40 AM Reply	I only want it for one thing I want to be able to track who's working on what, and what can't be started until something else is completed. No, I don't think the time estimates will make a damn bit of difference, but as long as I know that project B can't start until project A is finished I'll be happy. Oh, and when I assign somebody to a project I want it to appear on their schedule. SO two things I want it for. And give them a channel to provide feedback. Three, three things I want it for. Of course I could have gotten all the same things from [link\|http://www.tutos.com\|TUTOS], but that's a whole other argument. === Implicitly condoning stupidity since 2001.
Post #112,679 by tuberculosis 8/4/03 4:16:47 PM 8/21/07 6:34:16 AM Reply	Link's broken Smalltalk is dangerous. It is a drug. My advice to you would be don't try it; it could ruin your life. Once you take the time to learn it (to REALLY learn it) you will see that there is nothing out there (yet) to touch it. Of course, like all drugs, how dangerous it is depends on your character. It may be that once you've got to this stage you'll find it difficult (if not impossible) to "go back" to other languages and, if you are forced to, you might become an embittered character constantly muttering ascerbic comments under your breath. Who knows, you may even have to quit the software industry altogether because nothing else lives up to your new expectations. --AndyBower Edited by tuberculosis Aug. 21, 2007, 06:34:16 AM EDT Expand All History
Post #112,713 by JimWeirich 8/4/03 7:41:34 PM Reply	The Planning Game I've used various different project tracking programs in the past and they were all poor at helping manage a project. Since I've started using XP techniques to do projects, I've found that the planning game coupled with good iteration planning works great. -- -- Jim Weirich jweirich@one.net [link\|http://onestepback.org\|http://onestepback.org] --------------------------------------------------------------------- "Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it." -- Donald Knuth (in a memo to Peter van Emde Boas)

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