Administration bungling

Post #110,364 by johnu 7/18/03 1:28:00 PM Reply	Administration bungling Combined with the whacked leaker story, this begins to look bad. [link\|http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003756\|Yellowcake Remix] One of the mysteries of the recent yellowcake uranium flap is why the White House has been so defensive about an intelligence judgment that we don't yet know is false, and that the British still insist is true. Our puzzlement is even greater now that we've learned what last October's national intelligence estimate really said. We're reliably told that that now famous NIE, which is meant to be the best summary judgment of the intelligence community, isn't nearly as full of doubt about that yellowcake story as the critics assert or as even CIA director George Tenet has suggested. The section on Iraq's hunt for uranium, for example, asserts bluntly that "Iraq also began vigorously trying to procure uranium ore and yellowcake" and that "acquiring either would shorten the time Baghdad needs to produce nuclear weapons." ... As we interpret that NIE language, the President was entirely accurate in what he said in that speech about Saddam pursuing uranium in Africa. Mr. Tenet's carefully calibrated statement and disclosure last Friday accepting responsibility for this "mistake" was more tortured than warranted by the assertions in the NIE. Bad because the administration has bungled the whole Niger thing. The forged document was not the only piece of intellegence about the yellow cake. There's no reason not to stand by it. They brought this upon themselves. It'll be interesting to see how long this non-story plays out.
Post #110,367 by jake123 7/18/03 1:41:56 PM Reply	I bet it's not a non-story to the families of the people killed in Iraq. Nor to the families of the people who were just told that they will be staying there "indefinitely". Do you understand? --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #110,368 by deSitter 7/18/03 1:45:42 PM 7/18/03 1:47:11 PM Reply	Re: Administration bungling We broke one of the few remaining ironclad American virtues - we initiated an aggressive war based on Keystone Kop intelligence gathering. And you claim this is a "non-story"? Even Vietnam was better justified - the ARVN wanted and needed our help. (Let's ignore that the S. Vietnamese govt was utterly corrupt). As an aside, Bush then trampled another hallowed tradition - that the formal title of CiC does not entitle you to salute, wear a unidform, carry a weapon, or take taxpayer funded joyrides on military aircraft. At that moment, Bush covered himself in shame. Can you imagine Lincoln donning his kepi and yanking a cannon lanyard outside Petersburg? Wilson donning a Kaiserhelm in mocking "fun"? Roosevelt carrying around a Jap ear? These men did not play at war. They did not disgrace their country. The list of Shrub's excrescences is endless - he is a wastrel, a blot on American history. Let's also not forget that the Resident chimp is a deserter in time of war. And a coke-hoovering whore monger. -drl Edited by deSitter July 18, 2003, 01:46:24 PM EDT Edited by deSitter July 18, 2003, 01:47:11 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #110,379 by boxley 7/18/03 2:55:56 PM Reply	Nit or take taxpayer funded joyrides on military aircraft. During Clinton's first term Stefanopolis and others used mil aircraft (helocopters) to go on golf outings. Every concress critter and tag along uses blackhawks to tour Alaska. thanx, bill questions, help? [link\|mailto:pappas@catholic.org\|email pappas at catholic.org]
Post #110,415 by Ashton 7/18/03 6:33:10 PM Reply	That's no nit - it's a micron-sized Badger.
Post #110,369 by ben_tilly 7/18/03 1:48:00 PM Reply	You have already demonstrated a "unique" about truth Why should any of us accept anything you claim about what is and is not true? Regards, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #110,403 by johnu 7/18/03 5:08:01 PM Reply	Re: You have already demonstrated a "unique" about truth You have already demonstrated a "unique" about truth As we interpret that NIE language, the President was entirely accurate in what he said in that speech about Saddam pursuing uranium in Africa British intelligence stands by the story as well. I guess it's unique to not consider accurate statments lies around here. Regards, John
Post #110,416 by jb4 7/18/03 6:45:36 PM 7/18/03 6:47:14 PM Reply	Ass-covering is Ass-covering... ...regardless of whether it has a Limey accent or a Tejano drawl. Yeah, like Blair, who is in sooo much more trouble than Shrub (at the current time) politically, is going to admit that his vaunted Mi6 was hoodwinked by a college-dorm forged document! When pigs fly (and Marlowe and his sock puppett johnu admit they're basically wrong)! jb4 "We continue to live in a world where all our know-how is locked into binary files in an unknown format. If our documents are our corporate memory, Microsoft still has us all condemned to Alzheimer's." Simon Phipps, SUN Microsystems Edited by jb4 July 18, 2003, 06:47:14 PM EDT Expand All History
Post #110,446 by ben_tilly 7/18/03 11:41:39 PM Reply	Oh, you know what I am referring to See the discussion at [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=109602\|http://z.iwethey.org...?contentid=109602] if it slipped your mind. Note carefully which posts you didn't respond to. My opinion is that you don't have so little credibility left on the subject of integrity that I pretty much discount anything you have to say. Of course you haven't much shown that you care about my opinion, making us basically even. Regards, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #110,669 by johnu 7/21/03 8:43:30 AM Reply	Re: Oh, you know what I am referring to Note carefully which posts you didn't respond to. My opinion is that you don't have so little credibility left on the subject of integrity that I pretty much discount anything you have to say. Of course you haven't much shown that you care about my opinion, making us basically even. Feel free to point out which posts in that thread which you feel it was important for me to respond to and I gladly will. Regards, John
Post #110,672 by jake123 7/21/03 8:48:53 AM Reply	I expect he was looking for a response to the direct question aimed at you about what Bush said he was going to do before invading Iraq, and what he actually did do before invading Iraq. You didn't respond, but instead responded to a response from another poster, without addressing the original question. ... and hey, I didn't even have to go look at the exchange to figure out what he was talking about; it was a pretty glaring attempt to avoid the issue on your part. Hence, no credibility; you didn't want to answer because it shows that you're wrong about Bush's willingness to deceive the public, and his willingness to go back on what he said he'd do in the name of expediency. --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
Post #110,679 by johnu 7/21/03 10:48:26 AM Reply	Re: I expect he was looking I expect he was looking for a response to the direct question aimed at you about what Bush said he was going to do before invading Iraq, and what he actually did do before invading Iraq. I did [link\|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=109772\|respond]. It was late, but I did respond to his question. If you guys are talking about something else, please point it out. Regards, John
Post #110,701 by ben_tilly 7/21/03 1:37:58 PM Reply	Yes, you responded..eventually After how many rounds of consistently not responding to the point? And with a response which left the question of whether or not Shrub ever lied on anything an unprovable question to be settled by religious belief. As I commented, Nice goalposts there. Anyways I would carry this discussion on further, but I am in the process of moving. After tonight I won't be very available for over a week, and today is pretty busy as well... Cheers, Ben "good ideas and bad code build communities, the other three combinations do not" - [link\|http://archives.real-time.com/pipermail/cocoon-devel/2000-October/003023.html\|Stefano Mazzocchi]
Post #110,705 by johnu 7/21/03 1:52:58 PM Reply	Re: Yes, you responded..eventually And with a response which left the question of whether or not Shrub ever lied on anything an unprovable question to be settled by religious belief. It's certainly provable. Just show he knew before hand the statement he was about to make was false. For example, if he directed his UN group to only call a final vote if they had the votes, then went on T.V. and said: "No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote. We want to see people stand up and say what their opinion is about Saddam Hussein and the utility of the United Nations Security Council." then you would have a lie. Anyways I would carry this discussion on further, but I am in the process of moving. After tonight I won't be very available for over a week, and today is pretty busy as well... Hope the move goes well. Feel free to respond when you have time. Regards, John
Post #153,306 by marlowe 5/1/04 8:20:54 AM Reply	Latest development in yellowcake story [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54640-2004Apr29.html\| Joseph Wilson changes his story ] Excerpt: It was Saddam Hussein's information minister, Mohammed Saeed Sahhaf, often referred to in the Western press as "Baghdad Bob," who approached an official of the African nation of Niger in 1999 to discuss trade -- an overture the official saw as a possible effort to buy uranium. Sahhaf's role casts more light on an aspect of Wilson's report to the CIA that was publicly disclosed last summer. On the heels of Wilson's public criticism that intelligence was exaggerated and his statement that his trip to Niger had turned up no uranium sales to Iraq, agency Director George J. Tenet took the blame for allowing President Bush to make assertions about the Iraqi quest for nuclear material in his 2003 State of the Union address. Tenet said the intelligence had been too "fragmentary" to merit inclusion in the speech. Tenet's statement noted that Wilson had reported back to the CIA that a former Niger official told him that "in June 1999 a businessman approached him and insisted that the former official meet with an Iraqi delegation to discuss 'expanding commercial relations' between Iraq and Niger. The former official interpreted the overture as an attempt to discuss uranium sales." In his book, Wilson recounts his encounter with the unnamed Niger official in 2002, saying, he "hesitated and looked up to the sky as if plumbing the depths of his memory, then offered that perhaps the Iraqi might have wanted to talk about uranium." Wilson did not get the Iraqi's name in 2002, but he writes that he talked to his source again four months ago, and that the former official said he saw Sahhaf on television before the start of the war and recognized him as the person he talked to in 1999. ---------------------------------------------------------------- DEAL WITH IT. Americans: a pack, not a herd. Never mind all the mass graves. Where's the nerve gas? "It\ufffds Warholian: in the future, all conflicts will be Vietnam for 15 minutes." - Lileks [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfire...arlowe/index.html]

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