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New "Moderate" Saudia Arabia
The following article exposes the myth of Saudia Arabia being a moderate Arab country. [link|http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2001/09/28/saudi_arabia/index.html|http://www.salon.co...a/index.html]

Here are some of the major points:

"If the term 'Islamic fundamentalist' applies to any place in the world, it's Saudi Arabia," says Ali Abunimah, vice president of the Arab American Action Network. "The Taliban is rightly criticized for its horrendous social policies. But the silence on Saudi Arabia is inexcusable. The lack of political freedom there is stifling, yet Saudi Arabia gets a pass from the West.
...
alcohol is banned in Saudi Arabia, as were valentines and Pok\ufffdman cards recently. Women, who are routinely segregated from men, cannot drive automobiles. The country has no written constitution and no elected legislature, and there are no political parties. Instead, Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy. Its royal family numbers 4,000, but just 60 have a major say in policy decisions. Saudi courts order more than 100 public beheadings each year, and human rights groups claim detainees are routinely tortured.

Radio, television and Internet content is censored by the state. Religious police patrol markets, searching for women not properly covered up or shops remaining open during required daily prayers. Tourist visas do not exist.
...
And an extreme, puritanical brand of Islam, Wahhibism, is the official religion of the Saudi monarchy.
...
Earlier this year, an American grand jury handed down indictments against the Dhahran terrorists, some of whom sit in Saudi jails. Saudi officials dismissed the move though, and have refused to extradite any of the men to stand trial in America. (The case has proven to be particularly embarrassing for the Saudis since three months before the Dharan attack, officials uncovered the plot, yet were still unable to stop it.)
...
New No beer? What animals!
(BTW, I am not a beer-fan myself.)
________________
oop.ismad.com
New For a moment there, I thought I was reading about...
the ultra-orthodox Jews' plans for Israel until I came upon the monarchy bit. Actually, there are some that want a monarchy with a descendent of King David instead of the current government. Oi, vei!

Seriously, do you think anyone here didn't know the Saudis are still living in the 12th century (of the "common era")? It's that oil that makes them "moderate", nothing else.
Alex

Whom the gods destroy, they first make mad. -- Euripides
New An "SUV Marriage" to the west
________________
oop.ismad.com
New Re: For a moment there, I thought I was reading about...
You really don't like Israel and Jews don't you? Tell me, where have you ever seen such statements by ultra-Orthodox Jews?

In other words, all of the US's rhetoric about freedom and democracy is just that, when push comes to shove money or oil talks, and then people wonder why America is hated around the world. Freedom and democracy is for Americans only, the rest of the land can be ruled by dictators as long as they supply the US with oil, cheap labor, etc.
New So you're saying we should attack Saudi Arabia....?
hehehehe, good luck on that one.


New Re: So you're saying we should attack Saudi Arabia....?
Well, at least the 'spoils of war' insentive is there.
Ray
New Short memory: remember that black smoke ~ 9 years ago?
New Re: For a moment there, I thought I was reading about...
Well, you would be wrong if you thought I did not like Jews because of who they are. It's a person by person kind of thing. Some of my best friends are Jews. I've gone to school with them and worked with them from 7th grade in NYC, and on. I've had a Jewish college roommate (by choice). I've been to 3 bar mitzvahs and 2 Jewish weddings, one "mixed wedding" and driven or flown hundreds of miles to attend these. I've been an overnight guest in a Jewish home and vice versa. Obviously, they had low
standards. :)

As a child, I shared with Jews the experience of being on the wrong side of an electrified barbed wire fence of a Nazi concentration camp. I'm fortunate to have survived that.

There is some uniquely (European) Jewish style of humor that I enjoy.

I've known Jews that have "rubbed me the wrong way", too.

Anyway, I hope you can get the point.

I have not found the URL where I picked up the mention Israeli "monarchists". It was a few days ago and I was looking at Google hits on various religious parties and groups (RPN, Shas, and such). The reference may have been indirect.

But, I hope you're not going to tell me the ultra-Orthodox Jews are like the others. Here are some links that make that "monarchist" comment plausible:
Some of the ultra-Orthodox do not even recognize the nation of Israel.

[link|http://www.worldbook.com/fun/wbla/israel50/html/confjeru.htm|Source.]
[link|http://www.jrep.com/Info/10thAnniversary/1997/Article-6.html|Khomeinization battles.]
[link|http://www.foigm.org/IMG/battle.htm|Religious tensions.]
Mea She'arim: The quarter of Jerusalem's ultra-Orthodox communities. North of Shivtei Israel Street, or up Straus Street from the corner of Jaffa Road and King George. Here about one thousand ultra-Orthodox Jews live the life of the Polish shtetl (Jewish village). Some of them do not acknowledge the State of Israel created by Zionists as it could hinder the coming of the Messiah. The entire area is closed to motor traffic on the Sabbath. Visitors should make sure they are modestly dressed (no short pants or sleeveless dresses).

[link|http://www.travelnet.co.il/israel/Jerusalem/M.htm|Mea She'arim.]
[link|http://www.yale.edu/yup/books/071914.htm|Shrink Link.]

The criticism of US not exporting democracy is fair. But, it would be
called meddling if the US did actively export it.
Alex

Whom the gods destroy, they first make mad. -- Euripides
New ROFL! I like :) stoning wimmens in Jerusalem fer instance
why did god give us a talleywhacker and a trigger finger if he didnt want us to use them?
Randy Wayne White
New Blow for Bush as Saudis deny use of bases
[link|http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/10/01/wsaud01.xml|http://news.telegra.../wsaud01.xml]

"We do not accept the presence in our country of a single soldier at war with Muslims or Arabs," Prince Sultan Abdul Aziz, the defence minister, was quoted as saying. His comments, in the Arabic-language Okaz daily, contradicted earlier assurances from Saudi officials that Riyadh would permit the use of its bases for military operations in Afghanistan.
New A bit OT.
Just today had a call from a friend to see if I was interested in a 6 month assignment for big bucks and all expenses for me and my wife in Saudi Arabia. IBM mainframe stuff. I asked if it was a joke. It wasn't.

No thanks! There was no need to ask how big the buck were.
Alex

Whom the gods destroy, they first make mad. -- Euripides
New Heh - a friend went there..
Maintain radio transmitter stuff. Make the full 1 year (?) or lose most of the pay. He hated it.

One of their guys wondered if I might like to do some of their test equipment, lab equipment. Gave me the high privilege and distict pleasure of telling him to stuff his Heathen Compound / concentration camp, in an appropriate place of low illumination.

Shit - give us oil and we'll sleep with Anyone.



A.
New An interesting article...
that seems to support Bluke...
[link|http://theweeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/000/277gkmhl.asp| The Standard ]
New Our ignorance of the subtleties (or even overview)
of everything except the innumerable sects of Christianity: may be the fatal ignorance, over all the others.

We have so much to undo from previous support of disgusting 'anti-communists' (while we were smearing & jailing our own Commyunists) - I don't see how we can act next from anything other than 'instinct'.

Which is where we have often begun and ended. Ended?



Ashton
     "Moderate" Saudia Arabia - (bluke) - (14)
         No beer? What animals! - (tablizer)
         For a moment there, I thought I was reading about... - (a6l6e6x) - (7)
             An "SUV Marriage" to the west -NT - (tablizer)
             Re: For a moment there, I thought I was reading about... - (bluke) - (4)
                 So you're saying we should attack Saudi Arabia....? - (Simon_Jester) - (2)
                     Re: So you're saying we should attack Saudi Arabia....? - (rsf) - (1)
                         Short memory: remember that black smoke ~ 9 years ago? -NT - (Ashton)
                 Re: For a moment there, I thought I was reading about... - (a6l6e6x)
             ROFL! I like :) stoning wimmens in Jerusalem fer instance -NT - (boxley)
         Blow for Bush as Saudis deny use of bases - (bluke) - (2)
             A bit OT. - (a6l6e6x) - (1)
                 Heh - a friend went there.. - (Ashton)
         An interesting article... - (Simon_Jester) - (1)
             Our ignorance of the subtleties (or even overview) - (Ashton)

One of them was this cute little yellowtail, and she's giving me the eye. So I figured, this is my chance for a little fun. You know, piece o' Pisces.
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