Objections to those answers

1. "Jesus is perfect" - irrelevant. Jesus was human, and therefore imperfect. "Eloi, eloi, lama sabachtami?" This is not the statement of a perfect being, but one in very human pain.

2. A valid objection - a religion is defined by how it is practiced. The record for Christianity is not good (nor is it for Islam, Judaism, ...) The answer here should be behavior, not words.

3. For many, it IS a crutch - or better said, a substitute for real spirituality, in which personal miracles are possible. The answer here is - one cannot be TRULY self-dependent without having some clue about the immaterial aspects of existence.

4. This is true. It IS narrow-minded to attempt to pigeonhole the unpigeonholable.

5. Again, true, and it's the main message of Jesus - do unto others etc. love your neighbor etc.

6. Again, true. A Christian is one who believes in the divine spark in humans, and the worth that it conveys. A good Christian need never have heard of Jesus - but when he does, he will not be surprised.

7. The Bible is largely fantasy and history. The important parts that actually have a message of hope can be reduced to excerpts from the Gospels. Revelation is a maniacally insane hallucination. Parts of Ezekiel as well. Parts of the OT Mosaic law are barbaric. Christianity is behavior, not reading.

8. There is no answer to this question. Read Job, and accept that our primitive state prevents the understanding of some things.

9. See 8.

10. This is a natural and correct question that, if properly answered, removes the Zoroastrian and Mithraic coloring of the real Christian message.

One can answer all these objections with the single statement - Christianity is that behavior which treats humans with respect because, like Jesus, they all personally take part of the divine.

I deem that summation worthy of The Brevity Award.
And in the Religion Forum - that comes with Papaya Leaf Clusters, for eschewing Any of the dogmatic words celebrated by massive overuse of the underclued.

About 1) which piques some associations -

Avatars are, by definition - Not those persons 'here' who have (via diligent internal Work + the aid of other Sages, most often) - come to "Realize" what it is They Are / and All Are. These are called Conscious Beings in the capitalized sense of that idea. (or "Fully Realized Beings", will do as well)

There have been quite a few, and most people know the names of several - none of whom are responsible for the subsequent and perhaps guaranteed? garblings of their Messages. 'Religions', coming well after the Fact - must be refreshed or they die out through irrelevance - so I have heard.

Avatars - arrive already Knowing, as infants (!) / Realizing that Truth which may not be expressed, given-away (since it is always inner generated or it does not Happen).

From this POV then, IMhO Jesus' 'doubt' (the dimension of which we could not possibly infer from the poor information or via any of the words) suggests something alien to other Conscious Beings, and especially to an 'Avatar': At such a level, mere "dropping off" of the physical body is simply No Big thing, so .. you see where that goes.

Of course, those of us who are not FRBs are no judge of the situation; but Eastern views are ~ that there are alive at all times (a few or many?) Realized Beings - most remaining silent. As in, "those who know do not say and vice versa". It isn't just a cute quip, you know? Sages do not proselytize. Always their first response to a face in front of them is, "do you have a Question?" The point is, I believe - only a Question asked is any reason to speak. Else it's wasted breath.

Avatars - are rarer, and it seems, may arrive even in consecutive 'incarnations' - though that idea too has been Bowdlerized into unrecognizability. Theirs is to 'Teach' by both example and an uncommon ability to get messages through the limitations of common Language.

Still.. there is no Idea so large that it cannot be reduced to incomprehensibility by successive egos in full parade. "Persons with sinecures" may be a fair description of the prime motivations, best I can tell.

Oh well. There's an Avatar in India right now; miracles and all. His fav comment seems to be (re the little 'demonstrations') "I give you what you want so that you will want what I have to give". He does not deal in religious dogma, except to symbolize all the major ones in a kind of flag. (Of 'Truce?' I imagine ;-)

Alas, by today there are legions who visit; if you want to experience that level of Being / or wish merely to begin from overt skepticism: you will be surrounded by diverse thousands from many countries; many from the US. 20 years ago, much closer approach was possible, even first-time. (First-degree hearsay, that)

Hey.. It's All ~~Out~~In There, for those serious about WTF is going-on hereabouts; no need to settle for Walmart. Or die for a metaphor either, as in every war then and the next Dubya Series.

Ashton

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