disappointed in Congress and Bush in this respect

Post #9,759 by duke 9/19/01 7:44:08 PM Reply	disappointed in Congress and Bush in this respect They should have issued a declaration of war against the persons or nations responsible for the plane bombing. A majority, except perhaps for dishonorable Representative Lee, would have voted for it.
Post #9,795 by JayMehaffey 9/19/01 11:56:15 PM Reply	To much power The current proclamation gives to much power to Bush, it essentially gives him the authority to attack anybody he wants in any way he wants. Remember that Bush doesn't need congress to allow him to make use of the military, he only needs congress if he actually wants to run a war. An actual declaration of war would be even worse. Imagine what would happen if we did that and it turned out that bin Ladin was taking money from renegade British nobles who hated the US for overthrowing British rule those many years ago. Oops, we just accidently declared war on our closest ally. Heck, what if bin Ladin is taking money from radicals in the US. Then we accidently declared war on ourselves. Though it would be profoundly amusing at a moral level, it would be an international disaster. Jay
Post #9,801 by Andrew Grygus 9/20/01 2:03:18 AM Reply	Declare war on ourselves? Not a problem. We surrender and pay ourselves reparations. And if it's English lairds financing this thing they should be treated differently from Arab sheiks? I don't think so. England extradites them, we hang them, and a truce is declaired. Unfortunately, much as I dislike W, when you are at war you need someone who has both complete responsibility and complete authority to back up that responsibility. Since he's in the position, he's the one, and he'd better perform. Waiting for Congresscritters to form a consensus on every major move is a sure ticket to disaster. And I still think a formal declaration of war, enemies to be appointed as needed, is a good way to go. That keeps things in sharp focus for potential enemies. [link\|http://www.aaxnet.com\|AAx]
Post #9,816 by JayMehaffey 9/20/01 8:46:04 AM Reply	The problem The problem is not giving Bush authority once we are at war (though that prospect scares me also), nor is it in amending the list of enemies (though that should be run by congress also, once we are at war I realize that may not always be practical). The problem is that congress has given Bush complete authority to decide who the enemy is. What if Bush suddenly has a religious experience and begins to follow Falwell's idea of who caused this war? Bush has already been given authority to take whatever action he thinks is necessary to deal with the 'enemy,' and given total authority to decide who the 'enemy' is. I think avoiding this very situation was one of the reasons the ability to declare war was given to Congress, not to the president. Congress has in essence handed part of their authority over to Bush. And yes, I realize that his real power here is limited by political reality. But I prefer to minimize cases where we are depending on one person showing good judgment about things that will affect the entire country forever. Jay
Post #9,808 by marlowe 9/20/01 5:01:42 AM Reply	It may yet happen. When the investigation is concluded, we could do a declaration of war without being criticized for jumping the gun. And if the Taliban don't turn over bin Laden damn soon, we should declare war agsinst them promptly. No need for ironclad prooof there. We have probable cause, and they're sheltering a suspect. Probable cause. That sounds like cop talk, doesn't it? Well, it applies all the same. And remember, the point of fighting the just side of a war is to instill law and order, and by means of these, justice. Should we be the policemen of the world? Somebody should. If not us, who? So long as we don't delude ourselves that we already are the policemen of the world, we can avoid the "police action" trap. But I think it should be our aspiration. Maybe we can evolve NATO and SEATO into an international government with teeth. And therefore, with credibility. We can house this organization in the old UN complex, once we've kicked out the current loser residents. [link\|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html\|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
Post #9,817 by jb4 9/20/01 8:49:03 AM Reply	Circular reasoning follows: If all it takes is "probable cause", are we then performing a "police action"? jb4 (Enquiring minds want to know...)

Welcome to IWETHEY!