Post #96,076
4/11/03 1:58:45 PM
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Doing my part for the economy
The wife and I are trying to get a mortgage on a house up here in Albany. It's a brilliant house -- 1896 Victorian with 14 rooms (thereabouts), in pretty good shape (esp for a house that old), and cheaper than the new house we bought in Raleigh three years ago. And best of all, it has 200 amp service going into it.
The only thing that's a problem at this point is pushing the paperwork through. Mortgage is approved, we just need to get them to dot all the t's and cross the i's. Er, the other way around, I mean.
And the bonus is, our dogs won't have to be kenneled any more.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,077
4/11/03 2:02:04 PM
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*cheer*
Imric's Tips for Living- Paranoia Is a Survival Trait
- Pessimists are never disappointed - but sometimes, if they are very lucky, they can be pleasantly surprised...
- Even though everyone is out to get you, it doesn't matter unless you let them win.
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Post #96,083
4/11/03 3:02:13 PM
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14 rooms, lets all go to Albany for vacation! luck
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
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Post #96,091
4/11/03 3:51:01 PM
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Half are closets ;-)
Congrats...
[link|mailto:jbrabeck@attbi.com|Joe]
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Post #96,097
4/11/03 5:12:34 PM
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hehe.
6 bedrooms, 5 living rooms (!), one dining room, one kitchen, 2 bathrooms, and one weird undefined room at the front of the second floor. And an attic and a basement. 2700 square feet of living space.
The closets are abysmally small, though. And the bedrooms, aren't too big either, though they are larger than most bedrooms I've seen in Victorian style houses.
Oh, and there are tin ceilings in four of the rooms. Which people seem impressed by, though I don't know why, since they've been painted over and look pretty much like all the other ceilings in the house.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,192
4/12/03 2:06:33 AM
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Sounds like a dream frat-house, actually.
I would guess that wired undefined room could be called a Drawing Room, or an Upstairs Parlour.
If you can put up a simple diagram of the layout somewhere we can comment on what we think each room is. :-)
Wade.
Is it enough to love Is it enough to breathe Somebody rip my heart out And leave me here to bleed
| | Is it enough to die Somebody save my life I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #96,215
4/12/03 12:06:16 PM
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Oh, I have a "virtual tour" :)
I didn't post it here, because I'm not so old that I say to my friends "come here and watch my slideshow!" :D
[link|http://dtcweb.com/house|http://dtcweb.com/house]
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,219
4/12/03 12:26:21 PM
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Re: Oh, I have a "virtual tour" :)
Sweet--lots of potential (once, as you say, their clutter is replaced by your clutter). How many are you, to fill all these rooms, if it's not impertinent to ask?
cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
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Post #96,221
4/12/03 12:45:35 PM
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Not impertinent
At the moment there are only two of us, but we are planning on having "the kids." And I need some rooms set aside for an office and home recording studio. (well, not need, but it would make my life easier). And we still need guest rooms. Truth told, we'll have no problem using all that space.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,226
4/12/03 2:01:21 PM
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new things to learn, zone valves stair avoidance, looks good
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
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Post #96,456
4/14/03 8:26:37 AM
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"Possessions will fit any available space"? :-)
Is it enough to love Is it enough to breathe Somebody rip my heart out And leave me here to bleed
| | Is it enough to die Somebody save my life I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #96,313
4/13/03 12:36:07 AM
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Nice tour!
I had an oil fired furnace as well when I lived in that area. It also served to make the hot water using what was called a "coil". In effect cold water went through a copper coil which was immersed in hot water that is used for heat. We had hard water (i.e. had some calcium and manganese salts in the water) which would over time cake on the inside of that coil making the heat transfer inefficient. Every few years we paid to get the pipe cleaned by running acid through it. Eventually we got smart and got a water softener.
Anyway, oil fired furnaces require electricity to run for controls, fuel injector, igniter, zone valves, as well as the circulating pump for the hot water that runs through the radiators. So if you lose power your heating is dead. You can, of course, get a generator backup. The electric power in that neck of the woods is much more reliable than it has been for me in North Carolina. In any year I get as many failures as I had in 14 years in upstate New York.
Alex
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
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Post #96,462
4/14/03 8:39:07 AM
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Hey, not bad.
That odd room you mentioned looks like a solarum or something. And a wide-angle lens (like 20mm or something) would have been Very Useful :-).
Wade.
Is it enough to love Is it enough to breathe Somebody rip my heart out And leave me here to bleed
| | Is it enough to die Somebody save my life I'd rather be Anything but Ordinary Please
| -- "Anything but Ordinary" by Avril Lavigne. |
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Post #96,468
4/14/03 8:58:17 AM
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Chris...
That house BEGS... for a good clean-up... The White TRIM is AWESOME though...
The "Ornate" wall-paper you speak of... is just a bit to strong.
When the house was built, I am sure it had similar, but less strong colors... I am sure MOST of the house has Hardwood floors in it.
Awesome HOUSE... /me jealous as all get out.
b4k4^2
[link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - IT Grand-Master for President | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|2004, the year Microsoft develops for Linux ] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds: The DHS [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberspace_strategy.pdf|Cyberer-Stratergery]. The ultimate in Cyber. |
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Post #96,539
4/14/03 3:13:34 PM
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There will be cleaning up :)
at first, however, I think we're just going to put up with all the wallpaper and deal with things like loose railings, stuck windows, etc.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,234
4/12/03 2:56:28 PM
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Don't be stupid
Victorians are notorious for having NO closets (they used armoires).
Sez me - recovering old house victim (1900 story and a half victorian in Washington Park).
Tip - skip the popular mechanics home repair manuals - they only cover modern construction. Get old-house specific repair books and when hiring tradesmen hire old guys who remember how that stuff was put together. Young guys just want to rip everything out and do it over (kind of like programmers that way).
Otherwise - hey congrats! I loved my old house - you're never hurting for something to do on a weekend.
"Packed like lemmings into shiny metal boxes. Contestants in a suicidal race." - Synchronicity II - The Police
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Post #96,278
4/12/03 8:44:47 PM
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recovering old house victim?
Well, I'm still recovering from the nasty postwar housing I was raised in, back in the San Fernando Valley in the 1950s. The first house I remember properly (I have a few vague and disconnected memories of the previous) was one we moved into, newly-built, in 1955--we subsequently lived in two others within a half-mile radius, each differing in exterior details but identical as to floorplan, by 1962. I thought at the time that everyone lived that way. Two of those three houses wre bulldozed before they turned twenty for what is now called the "Ronald Reagan Freeway." I now own a house built in 1908. I'm confident it will still be standing in fifty years. I doubt whether the single remaining SFV house from my childhood (I visited the neighborhood the other year--a slum) will survive as long.
cordially,
"Die Welt ist alles, was der Fall ist."
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Post #96,300
4/12/03 11:12:15 PM
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Old stuff lasts longer...
...because the old stuff that didn't last longer has already fallen down. The stuff that's still around is definitionally the better stuff. They made cheap shit back then too. Tarpaper, clapboard, and tin huts don't have much staying power. \r\n\r\n Though I'd have to agree that a lot of modern construction is cheap and shoddy, possibly a higher proportion of mid-market stuff to boot. I actually worked a construction crew for a few months in 1987, doing "California framing" (one nail per side in stud blocking), and "persuading" walls straight. It was an education.
--\r\n Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n [link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n \r\n Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #96,084
4/11/03 3:07:38 PM
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Wow, envy!
Volume -> 10
Select -> Church Organ
Ambience -> Hall
Now, where is that Bach....
-drl
(Dm - 2Am)(Rmn + 1/2gmn R + 1/2Fmn) = 0
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Post #96,100
4/11/03 5:25:55 PM
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Err...Ross...
Volume -> 11!
C'mon man, you know better than stopping at 10....
jb4 "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." Rich Cook
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Post #96,177
4/11/03 11:24:23 PM
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Haven't seen Spinal Tap Yet :/
Don't give out any spoilers!
-drl
(Dm - 2Am)(Rmn + 1/2gmn R + 1/2Fmn) = 0
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Post #96,210
4/12/03 9:21:23 AM
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It's a LPRDism too. No excuses. ;-)
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Post #96,148
4/11/03 8:27:07 PM
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A friend used to call that inserting a needle attached to...
a bank's tube to drain you of your blood for the duration of the mortgage. But, whatever, you picked a good time to get a mortgage.
Another friend had a house about the same vintage in Rhinebeck, NY. Do you have a painted tin roof on yours? Those are "fun" to get repaired. Just make sure the house is inspected before closing.
And, thanks for keeping those dollars moving!
Alex
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
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Post #96,163
4/11/03 10:26:22 PM
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House already inspected
It was the first time I've ever seen one of those guys actually get excited about his job. He really liked the house. There are a few things that need to be dealt with. Most of them aren't show-stoppers, and are the result of the previous owners doing their own maintenance on the house. But, as the guy said, "some owners do their own work and you have to spend a few hours figuring out what the hell they DID. Others, you can look at it and say, 'oh, you just need to do this and this and it'll be fine.' These folks are the second type."
A porch needs some repair, the stair railing needs a little work. Roof is in good shape, (and not painted, just regular shingles), exterior is in good shape, no bug infestation. Eventually we'll have to update some of the electrical wiring, that'll cost some money. But for the first year most of the stuff we'll need to do will be relatively inexpensive home projects.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,167
4/11/03 10:49:29 PM
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Good to know
if you get the urge to "improve" your house, you can just refer back to this man's report before you get silly. Seriously, if you have a house over a 100 years old and in the condition you report, snatch it up and take good care of it. It'll take care of you. (In many senses)
The world is only a simple place to the simple.
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Post #96,168
4/11/03 10:52:31 PM
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Very good! Good luck with it!
Alex
Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. -- Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
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Post #96,178
4/11/03 11:28:55 PM
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Re: House already inspected
My Dad had a chance to buy a house for 40G or so in 1965, in an area of Atlanta that was in the way of a planned expressway. He didn't buy it - today it's still there and the neighborhood is magnificent (Morningside). It's worth a fortune. It had a magnificent spiral staircase and huge windows, a gigantic kitchen, a separate garage - but a tiny yard. My Dad wanted a yard. But I loved that house. I love old houses in general.
I told you Albany would be cool! I'd love to visit.
-drl
(Dm - 2Am)(Rmn + 1/2gmn R + 1/2Fmn) = 0
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Post #96,218
4/12/03 12:24:04 PM
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we'll have plenty of room to put you up :)
That house was made for visitors. You'd have to coexist with two cats and 2 dogs, though.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,258
4/12/03 7:03:47 PM
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I'll be in Albany June 20something
With the whole clan for a few days. Would you and the Mrs. like to have dinner one night?
----- Steve
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Post #96,299
4/12/03 11:08:59 PM
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That'd be cool.
My wife works odd hours and we won't know what those hours are until June, but if you're going to be up here for a week I think it shouldn't be a problem. :)
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,257
4/12/03 7:03:36 PM
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This seems like perhaps the best place to put these...
...general meanderings about your new house:
* Wow, looks just like the house I grew up in, down to the humongous hot-water radiators!
* Speaking of "humongous" -- is that just an effect of foreshortened perspective (or whatever the technical term may be) in the kitchen pic, or is the previous owners' refrigerator a double-wide?
* What's so freaky about those radiators, BTW -- isn't that how ALL houses are heated?!? (Well, that's what *I* was conditioned to think, by growing up in a house like that! :-) Just remember to keep your airing wrench handy (or, better yet, make sue no air gets trapped in the system in the first place).
* I think the "oil-burning thingy" is called a 'boiler' (though I'm not quite sure; as you might know, English isn't my native language). Oh, and the reason this is a separate system from the hot *tap* water is, in your taps you want *fresh* water, but in your radiators, the same old water recirculates from boiler to radiators to boiler to... It gets too stale and gunky to use it for drinking or cooking (or even for washing).
* If you consolidate on one single electricity meter, will you still get 200 Ampere, or just 100? If you think you'll be running *lots* of electr(on)ic stuff, it might be wise to check this before you go for it.
* As others (Wade, "drawing room"?) have said, all those "living rooms" probably had more specialized functions (and names) back when the house was new; f'rinstance, why do you call the dining room a "living room" innafirstplace?
* Have fun with the restoration, once you get around to it! (Hint: Be original; don't import your off-the-books labour from Mexico like everybody else -- get it from someplace exotic, like Finland, in stead! :-)
So, finally, what we're all *really* wondering: "dtcweb.com"?
What kind of site is that intended to become?
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #96,298
4/12/03 11:05:38 PM
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various replies
It's not that the refrigerator is very wide, it's more like the kitchen is extremely small. :)
The hot-water heaters were unusual to me -- our last house had forced air heat and AC. This house has no AC, but it has so many ceiling fans it won't matter. But what's an airing wrench?
I guess it's a boiler, I don't know. I thought the boiler was the hot water heater, but while english is my first language, I don't pay much attention to it. :)
If we consolidate, we'll still have 200 amps, yeah. We have 200 amp service going into the house, it's just that half of it goes into the circuit breaker and half goes into the fuse box.
I called the dining room a living room because I was getting tired of setting up that tour. :)
As to dtcweb.com, that's the first domain name I ever registered. It was supposed to be a site where OS/2 users could find support and information on native multimedia and publishing tools, but I never had the time to develop it properly, and IBM never did what they promised to do to make it plausible. Bastards.
I want to do something else with it, but I don't know what yet. These days, about all that email account does is collect spam. *sigh*
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,305
4/12/03 11:52:18 PM
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air wrench
in a closed liquid system liquid(water in this case) is circulated thru out. If air gets in the line it provides a bubble or stoppage. On each radiator is a small valve that provides an ability to bleed the air out of the system. Like bleeding brakes if yoy have done that. Ensure all are free and easily turnable. At 25 degrees below zero it is a bad time to find an air lock and the bleeder screws are rusted shut. thanx, bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
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Post #96,347
4/13/03 8:54:54 AM
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Especially since, at 25 below zero...
...an air bubble might mean the water gets "trapped" in that radiator; it doesn't circulate, and... Freezes.
And once you've got a radiator-shaped block of ICE in the radiator in stead of liquid water, bleeding out the air bubble won't help much any more. (Won't even be possible, actually.)
Oh, and if the radiators are connected serially, one blocked one can stop several others from working... So, yeah, you really want to know, *before* winter comes, that your radiators are working.
OTOH, don't let me and the BOx worry you too much: In the house I grew up in, we only had that kind of trouble once or twice in over fifteen years -- through our own fault, for not having checked the radiators in late autumn / early winter.
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #96,352
4/13/03 10:35:02 AM
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How exactly do you check them?
I've never had to maintain these things before, so I'm clueless here.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,353
4/13/03 11:25:08 AM
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There's a little valve usually near the top
You open it up, and air comes out. Once it's spitting good water then it's good to go.
Not a bad idea to do it again 'round midwinter either.
--\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #96,445
4/14/03 5:27:47 AM
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If there IS any air in there in the first place...
...then it comes out the way BOx and Jake have described; you open the little bleeder valve(*) and let the bubles out until you get pure water -- not necessarily "pure" in the sense of being particularly clean, but in the sense of being a constant stream, which shows that it's *just* (more or less dirty) water. As opposed to sporadic sploshings, a "stuttering" stream, which tells you it's interspersed with air.
Not to worry, though: Usually, you *don't have* any air trapped in the system to begin with -- why would you? It would have to *get* in there somehow; there would either have to be a leak somewhere, where water drips out and is replaced by air that slips in (to take up the space vacated by that water; "Nature abhors a vacuum", and all that), or you'd have to have opened up the system yourself, like if you exchanged a radiator for a newer one or something.
But, barring any major plumbing jobs on your part, some joint in the piping would have to be leaky -- and since most of the joints in this system are where the pipes connect to the radiators, they're usually handily near the radiators' bleeding valves. And leaking water doesn't vanish without a trace, but usually leaves tell-tale signs: the linoleum, parquet, or whatever other flooring material you have, will probably show stains. Look for discolorations or buckling below the bleeding valves and heat-regulation "taps" (which is usually around where the pipes go down through the floor, if you've got vertical ones) -- even on tiles or glazed concrete, you'd probably get calcium deposits, if the leaking's been going on for a while.
Also, air in the system is often recognizable by the sound it makes; an audible bubbling, gurgling, irregular kind of thing. Usually, you should have to press your ear against a radiator in order to be able to hear the gentle, *constant*, swishing sound of the water itself streaming through the system. (Sometimes, you can even hear the sound of the pump working, down by the boiler, in a radiator on the top floor. If you listen *really* carefully (or have a noisy old pump).)
The third sign you might have air in the system is if a radiator isn't evenly warm. When you fire up the furnace to max heat (normally, a thermostat down by the pump should do this for you as you open more radiators' "heat taps"), if you then notice that one or more regulators don't feel equally hot *all the way up*, then that might be because they're filled with air, not water, up at their tops. Air leads heat much less efficiently than water does, so if there's air behind the metal, less heat will be conducted to your hands than if there were water. (You might have to wait a while to be sure -- the metal itself does conduct, and if it's thick also stores, some heat.)
All in all, this may sound like a tremendous lot of pitfalls and potential problems -- but relax: It's really not all that bad; trust me. All you have to do is, some day before temperatures go below freezing (but it's all to the good if there's a definite nip in the air -- so, late September, early October, where you're at?) check out your heating. You do this by:
1) Make sure that the system's water reservoir (down by the pump, next to the boiler) is full or nearly full with water -- you don't want to *create* any air bubles, by making the system start to suck air.
2) Open the taps on all radiators to full heat. As you do this, examine the pipes and radiators around the joints where the pipes enter the radiators, and the floor below, for water stains and residual encrustations. Oh, and for actual wet water, of course!
3) Wait a while -- not as long as it takes to go to work and come back, but put them on before you do your weekend grocery shopping or whatever, and continue this check-list when you get back a few hours later.
4) When you come home again, the house might be unbearably hot -- this is why it's useful to do this on a cool day; just open some windows! :-) Now walk around and look at each radiator: Does it gurgle? Does it feel evenly hot all the way up? Do you see any water dripping from the pipe joints or the "tap" thingy you turned to max before you left?
If the answers, are no, yes, and no, respectively, for each and every radiator, then you have no worries. If you *want to*, you can of course bleed each one a little, just to see that there really is air-free water running through; but if the answers to the three questions above were the "correct" ones, then in all likelihood that *is* exactly what you'll see.
Ironically, though, the taps themselves are sometimes *conditionally* leaky: Turn them to a position they're not "used to", and they start to dribble a little! The irony is, the most unusual position is often maximum heat, because the system tends to be a tad over-dimensioned. Therefore, you might see some water dribbling from the tap itself -- *just because you're testing*! But if the other indicators I mentioned would suggest no leakage, then you're probably OK anyway... Turn it down to somewhere a little below max (you'll probably feel a range from fully closed to somewhere well below fully open where the tap moves easier), and see if the dribbling stops; it probably will.
This is why you made sure the system had water, checked for stains and water before leaving, and didn't stay away for the whole day: To avoid the *utter* irony of *introducing* air bubbles, or finding water leaks, from taps "unused" to being max open -- due to your very testing for air bubbles, you see?
But really, I expect *if* you run a thorough test like this, all you'll find is that the system works perfectly (apart from one or the other dribbling tap); they usually do.
So, relax.
(*): In the house where I grew up, in Sweden, the socket was a square hole, and the "key" or special wrench was a stub with a square cros section; dimension about 3/16 to 5/16 inch (? Around 5 mm, as I recall).
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #96,538
4/14/03 3:12:25 PM
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Thanks to both!
Sounds like it's pretty straightforward.
We're going to eventually get a generator in case of power failure. There were some problems with that this winter, so I want to be prepared. It won't do to go through all that and have my radiator pipes freeze break on a particularly cold day... :)
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,574
4/14/03 7:01:58 PM
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pipes wont freeze if they are running
if you lose power in a cold snap crack yer taps open a trickle, prevents freezing. Mandatory in a mobile home in Alaska below 0 power or no. thanx, bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Since corporations are the equivelent of human but they have no "concience" they are by definition sociopaths
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Post #96,589
4/14/03 8:47:50 PM
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Good reminder, Box
- along with the hay-bales around the trailer 'skirts' (much earlier). I passed that one on. Thermodynamics is just a word until you bloody Use It. You'll be reel handy, after the Armageddon Clan get through with playing out their fantasm ;-)
Ashton
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Post #96,593
4/14/03 9:18:16 PM
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Also, hot water lines freeze first.
At least they did in my experience. :-(
It seems to have to do with more impurities dissolved in hot water which raises the freezing point.
Hot water heat is nice in many respects. But, like anything, it requires maintenance. And if you're like me, as one gets older one gets more intolerant of the summer heat. So adding air conditioning later is much more of a chore than in a forced air system....
Best of luck with the house, Chris!
Cheers, Scott.
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Post #96,605
4/14/03 10:38:32 PM
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cheap science experiment
place boiling water in ice cube tray alongside another tray of cold tap water, report back on which freezes first along with an essay on transference, thanx, bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Carpe Dieu
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Post #96,610
4/14/03 11:10:40 PM
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It's different in pipes apparently.
At least according to [link|http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF4/440.html|this] discussion of water freezing in pipes. In an open container, [link|http://www.gi.alaska.edu/ScienceForum/ASF6/650.html|this] discussion of water freezing in a cup, they say that it depends on the environment the water is in: I never put much credence into these claims until I started reading different accounts of the phenomenon. Most recently, the distinguished scientist and author, Isaac Asimov, in his Book of Facts (Red Dembner Enterprises Corp., 1981), flatly states in one of his "3000 facts," that "Water freezes faster if it is cooled rapidly from a relatively warm temperature than if it is cooled at the same rate from a lower temperature."
This may be true, but only under certain circumstance. Dr. T. Neil Davis (editor of this column from 1976 to 1981) performed his own experiments, and found that only when he used Styrofoam cups at temperatures near zero, did warm water freeze first.
Under almost any other circumstance, especially those which allowed heat to escape through the sides of the container, such as from a metal cup, the colder water froze first.
Insulation being taken into account, we can now attribute the hot water freezing first to the fact that, in hot water, circulation currents move faster, exposing more water to the air, and resultant evaporation (hence, cooling) occurs at a greater rate. Also, boiling the water before exposure to frigid temperatures removes the dissolved air which inhibits freezing in the colder water. Nothing's simple... :-) Cheers, Scott.
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Post #96,611
4/14/03 11:12:20 PM
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Umm a typo, I think
[link|http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/chemical/meltpt.html|See that and raise ya] ;-)
Alas, water has such nice specific heat and other qualities that.. nice as antifreeze would be (for the rare unthinkable freeze sans power).. down would go the other assets too. (But a little anti-rust might be a nice addition?)
Ashton who wonders what's in the new Dex -ron? or -joe auto antifreezes, such that it need not be changed so often -?- and is kinder to the aluminum / Fe badness of the emf-series. (but not wondering yet enough.. to Google for it)
PS - the ice-cube tray trick with hot water, has a prosaic explanation.. [cackle]
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Post #96,613
4/14/03 11:41:20 PM
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Yabut.
I remember the PB elevation and FP depression stuff from HS chemistry, but I saw what I saw.
It reminds me of my freshman college physics course where the prof did a problem involving static and dynamic friction and concluded "always pump your brakes!" But that simple example of static friction being higher than dynamic friction neglects reaction times, people generally not knowing how to apply brakes to the limits of adhesion, etc., real-world factors that affect braking distances. Car and Driver magazine did an article on someone who ran a driving course who showed that in most cases, with most drivers, (in cars without ABS) that stomping on the brakes and locking up all 4 wheels gave shorter stoping distances than pumping the brakes. (I think we discussed it on ezIWeThey a while ago.)
I suspect that what I saw in the hot water pipes freezing first is more related to air being in the hot water than supercooling, but who knows. It was about 25 years ago and I have no desire to repeat the experiment! :-)
Cheers, Scott.
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Post #96,616
4/14/03 11:51:09 PM
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Heh.. F=\ufffdN
was another: ie you'll never accelerate / decel your vehicle > 1G.
(Then sticky rubber + dragsters smoked that Revealed Truth. Called 'gear-teeth', for one obv. explanation)
Question Authority I didn't think; I experimented. Wilhelm Roentgen
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Post #96,615
4/14/03 11:49:28 PM
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as far as antifreeze goes
being on the north slope and scooping frozen slush out of anti freeze barrels that then mixed with water became a true liquid was a great education. thanx, bill
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]
Carpe Dieu
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Post #96,627
4/15/03 2:36:55 AM
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But that doesn't help for *these* pipes.
Since they're a different system from your kitchen / bathroom tap water, remember?
BTW, Chris: I might have misremembered about the heating water system's tank being down in the basement -- check for an open-top water tank in the attic, too. If you find one, it's probably the expansion tank for the heating system. (Kind of like that plastic container next to the radiator in your car.)
[link|mailto:MyUserId@MyISP.CountryCode|Christian R. Conrad] (I live in Finland, and my e-mail in-box is at the Saunalahti company.)
Your lies are of Microsoftian Scale and boring to boot. Your 'depression' may be the closest you ever come to recognizing truth: you have no 'inferiority complex', you are inferior - and something inside you recognizes this. - [link|http://z.iwethey.org/forums/render/content/show?contentid=71575|Ashton Brown]
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Post #96,656
4/15/03 9:52:23 AM
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No tanks in the attic
just lots of insulation.
We're going to have to do something about the attic. Apparently it needs to be ventillated all year round, so we need to find some way to keep the windows open without letting in the weather. Apparently there are window-mounted fan units that can do this kinda thing. I've never had to pay attention before, so I'll have to look into it.
"We are all born originals -- why is it so many of us die copies?" - Edward Young
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Post #96,719
4/15/03 5:00:17 PM
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Well.. unless one lives in Iraq___:-)
Good Point.. frankly I've never thought through the migration of all that moisture we try to put back into the air, inside the house - in Winter - 'cause our bodies really hate 20% RH. A house is a gigantic chem-lab and enviro chamber; 50+ years ago - this was all magic.
But we all realize which direction hot-air goes, so it sounds as if there must be some standard attic air-flow treatment (perhaps fans with solenoid-op shutters?) which can get the air + water out befor the lower life forms move in and colonize. I do recall hearing the consequences of putting-in insulation WRONG-way around for the vapor barrier, though! So.. little things mean a Lot!
Luck,
Ashton
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Post #96,348
4/13/03 8:56:09 AM
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Kewl, thanks.
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