Post #93,350
3/31/03 9:54:36 PM
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US Army keeps it's word ...
and massacres 7 Iraqi civilians [link|http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/31/international/worldspecial/31CND-VAN.html|Army Army Says U.S. Troops Killed 7 Iraqi Women and Children]
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Post #93,363
3/31/03 10:53:34 PM
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Cheap shot, if the reports are at all correct.
Allegedly they:
Gestured at the oncoming car to stop.
Then fired in the air.
Then fired at the engine (compartment).
THEN fired at occupants - as none of the above caused the vehicle to slow.
To the extent the above version proves correct: cheap shot.
ashton
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Post #93,370
3/31/03 11:02:45 PM
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WashPost version.
[link|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A61229-2003Mar31.html|Here]. NEAR KARBALA, Iraq, March 31 -- As an unidentified four-wheel drive vehicle came barreling toward an intersection held by troops of the Army's 3rd Infantry Division, Capt. Ronny Johnson grew increasingly alarmed. From his position at the intersection, he was heard radioing to one of his forward platoons of M2 Bradley Fighting Vehicles to alert it to what he described as a potential threat.
"Fire a warning shot," he ordered as the vehicle kept coming. Then, with increasing urgency, he told the platoon to shoot a 7.62mm machine-gun round into its radiator. "Stop [messing] around!" Johnson yelled into the company radio network when he still saw no action being taken. Finally, he shouted at the top of his voice, "Stop him, Red 1, stop him!"
That order was immediately followed by the loud reports of 25mm cannon fire from one or more of the platoon's Bradleys. About half a dozen shots were heard in all.
"Cease fire!" Johnson yelled over the radio. Then, as he peered into his binoculars from the intersection on Highway 9, he roared at the platoon leader, "You just [expletive] killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!"
[...]
Dealing with the gruesome scene was a new experience for many of the U.S. soldiers deployed here, and they debated how the tragedy could have been avoided. Several said they accepted the platoon leader's explanation to Johnson on the military radio that he had, in fact, fired two warning shots, but that the driver failed to stop. And everybody was edgy, they realized, since four U.S. soldiers were blown up by a suicide bomber Saturday at a checkpoint much like theirs, only 20 miles to the south.
[...] :-( Regards, Scott.
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Post #93,380
3/31/03 11:43:25 PM
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Pretty uncertain description, this one -
I read it here as:
The man with radio ordered warning shots, then one in radiator - and it seems that *these didn't happen* -?- or happened way too late? and then he escalated to, STOP THEM! Unclear which of the above (to me).
So it enters the realm of nebulosity and culpability. A C&C fuckup that wasn't cold-blooded so much as failure to follow immediate orders. (If this version is even close-enough to true, natch)
Ugh. 25 mm HE shell (I presume HE) in an SUV.
Ashton
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Post #93,432
4/1/03 2:06:20 AM
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Ash, I'd like to believe they did as claimed but based on FF
incidents, US troops are re-earning their repo for being trigger happy & undisciplined.
I don't know how news is appearing in US papers at the moment but here on a day-to-day basis the headlines (1st 4 pages of a paper) are full of stories of which about a third are not very nice.
The FF incident with the A-10 got so much coverage it was repeated in 2 different reports within most papers.
It is also stated here that our foreign minister was sebt to meet Powell in US to tell him Australia will pull out the moment the war is delared won by US. Our PM has gone on TV saying Australia will have no part in the occpation of Iraq afterwards.
Street demos here are daily & getting uglier. The police have warned a student group not to march anymore & have threatened to arrest them if they try.
Feeling about the slaughter of civillians & the trigger hapiness of US is running high. I can't help feeling that your reports no longer match ours.
I believe Hosni Mabarak's remark was the most chilling international comment on the progress of the event.
Also we are getting regular news reports & video from Indonesia where volunteers are signing up to go fight in Iraq. We have heard that over 4000 Arabs have gone from Jordan to Baghdad to join in. This may continue even after US says it has won.
Doug Marker
Spectres from our past: Beware the future when your children & theirs come after you for what you may have been willing to condone today - dsm 2003
Motivational: When performing activities, ask yourself if the person you most want to be would do, or say, it - dsm 2003
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Post #93,438
4/1/03 2:23:20 AM
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I think not
Allegedly they did all of what you said. However, a Western journalist "embedded" with the US Army division involved in the incident gives a different version of events.
William Branigin of the Washington Post says the vehicle contained 15 people, of whom 10 were killed and two seriously injured.
He also reports that soldiers at the checkpoint failed to fire warning shots in time.
"You just [expletive] killed a family because you didn't fire a warning shot soon enough!" the paper quotes Captain Ronny Johnson as telling his platoon leader. [link|http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2904911.stm|Civilians shot dead by US troops]
This version fits in very well with the comments the troops made yesterday [link|http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/31/international/worldspecial/31SUIC.html|Anger and Warning After Suicide Attack]
" "Five seconds," he said today, his voice still laced with anger. "They have five seconds to turn around and get out of here. If they're there in five seconds, they're dead."
The soldiers did exactly what they said would do yesterday. It is clear that the American troops were not trained for this and are nervous and trigger happy.
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Post #93,451
4/1/03 4:01:54 AM
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OK.. if that's how the other reports are coming in -
then it's looking a lot like Waterloo-light. Heading for -heavy.
And the death of the stupid neologism, embedded reporting.
What a price to pay to maybe.. just maybe muzzle a Prescott Bush dynasty of retards.
Ashton
Hearts and minds are supposed to remain in situ, in vivo.
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