Rumsfeld finally starting to see the situation.

is getting rid of the US. They remember George Bush Sr., and not fondly.

Predicting that the Shia in the south are going to turn on the coalition in a big way is not really very prescient of me; there are many places where one can find many many Iraqi Shia saying exactly that, if one but looks. From some of the stuff I've seen (recent docs, mostly) one gets the impression that they're looking forward to it.

This goes back to my very first prediction... a reasonably early US pullout, as it becomes clear that the place has become flat-out ungovernable, with the three main ethnic groups squabbling over the shattered remnants while the neighbours come in to pick over the valuable pieces.

Just saw a half hour doc on CBC about the Kurds in N. Iraq. Look up an American named Galbraith, who worked for State in the eighties. He authored a bill about the Kurds after a visit there, where he visited many of the gassed villages. It passed the Senate in <24 hours; according to the doc, the fastest passage of a bill in Senate history. It died in Congress after Reagan let it be known that it would be vetoed. The people in State didn't want to see the bill happen, as they were concerned that it would harm US economic interests. Take a look at the people in power in State at the time. Lots of familiar names there.

After the war he visited again, just in time to flee over the border into Syria as Hussein used helicopter gunships to kill Kurds fleeing over the border into Syria and Turkey. He had a camera with him on both trips, and had it on as he ran with a group of some dozens of others over the border into Syria while artillery shells were falling around them. Powerful stuff.

Look it up.

It helps understand why the "natural allies" of the US in Iraq are not being so friendly when you see who the players were. Not a lot of trust for the US. One of the leaders of the independent Kurdish controlled areas came this close to using the word treachery on camera, but restrained himself with the expression "it's important to remain diplomatic... let's say double standard."

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Post #92,592 by Brandioch 3/28/03 5:30:50 PM Reply	Rumsfeld finally starting to see the situation. [link\|http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42574-2003Mar28.html\|Rumsfeld Warns Iranian Proxies in Iraq] It's rather short so I'll include all of it. WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said on Thursday that armed Iranian proxies gathered inside Iraq will be considered combatants if they interfered with U.S. forces. "They report up to the (Iranian) Revolutionary Guard, and they're armed, and there are some additional ones that are close to the border," Rumsfeld told a Pentagon news briefing. "To the extent they interfere with (U.S.) Gen. (Tommy) Franks activities they would have to be considered combatants. It's called a "quagmire".
Post #92,976 by dmarker 3/30/03 12:07:02 AM Reply	BUT Rummy, when is an Iraqi suddenly an Iranian proxy ??? The many fighters gathering at the border are the poor bastards who fled murder & mayhem back in 1991 when US allowed Saddam back into south to squash the Shia revolt. So Rummy is starting to panic - threatens expat Iraqis & Iran with military attack if they come home. But isn't Rummy in Iraq to 'liberate' the Iraqis ??? Doug M Spectres from our past: Beware the future when your children & theirs come after you for what you may have been willing to condone today - dsm 2003 Motivational: When performing activities, ask yourself if the person you most want to be would do, or say, it - dsm 2003
Post #92,981 by jake123 3/30/03 12:25:46 AM Reply	They've already said their first job after Hussein goes is getting rid of the US. They remember George Bush Sr., and not fondly. Predicting that the Shia in the south are going to turn on the coalition in a big way is not really very prescient of me; there are many places where one can find many many Iraqi Shia saying exactly that, if one but looks. From some of the stuff I've seen (recent docs, mostly) one gets the impression that they're looking forward to it. This goes back to my very first prediction... a reasonably early US pullout, as it becomes clear that the place has become flat-out ungovernable, with the three main ethnic groups squabbling over the shattered remnants while the neighbours come in to pick over the valuable pieces. Just saw a half hour doc on CBC about the Kurds in N. Iraq. Look up an American named Galbraith, who worked for State in the eighties. He authored a bill about the Kurds after a visit there, where he visited many of the gassed villages. It passed the Senate in <24 hours; according to the doc, the fastest passage of a bill in Senate history. It died in Congress after Reagan let it be known that it would be vetoed. The people in State didn't want to see the bill happen, as they were concerned that it would harm US economic interests. Take a look at the people in power in State at the time. Lots of familiar names there. After the war he visited again, just in time to flee over the border into Syria as Hussein used helicopter gunships to kill Kurds fleeing over the border into Syria and Turkey. He had a camera with him on both trips, and had it on as he ran with a group of some dozens of others over the border into Syria while artillery shells were falling around them. Powerful stuff. Look it up. It helps understand why the "natural allies" of the US in Iraq are not being so friendly when you see who the players were. Not a lot of trust for the US. One of the leaders of the independent Kurdish controlled areas came this close to using the word treachery on camera, but restrained himself with the expression "it's important to remain diplomatic... let's say double standard." --\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca \n [link\|http://consultron.ca\|http://consultron.ca] [link\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca\|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] \n Kingston Ontario Canada [link\|news://news.consultron.ca\|news://news.consultron.ca] *\n-------------------------------------------------------------------

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