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New Reasoned rebuttal.
Heh...imagine this scenario: Hans Blix finds nasties. His cushy UN job is over, and he is the focus of some powerful people's undiluted hatred, and also essentially takes the burden of declaring war on Iraq.
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So, are you saying that Blix is venal at best, and mendacious at worst? Or what? Like I said, nice lampoon...

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Now look at the UN, basically since the beginning it has been all about one country after another standing up and swearing at the U.S., in the hopes that a few billion dollars of FA get sent their way to shut them up. Then the human rights council is led by Libya, and the weapons disarmament council is headed by...Iraq. Now who still thinks the UN isn't a complete joke? And you trust their investigator to risk international hatred by taking extra care to root out any WMD?
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And now here you are talking about the big bad UN doing exactly what you were just doing above wrt Blix. Nothing quite like a little drive-by character assassination to make yourself feel better, eh?

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If you think the UN has "basically ... been all about one country after another standing up and swearing at the U.S., in the hopes that a few billion dollars of FA get sent their way", then you have a very narrow view of the world. The UN was the organisation that got 100% behind the US in Gulf War I... was that them "standing up and swearing at the US ... for a few billion dollars"? How about when the UN set up the WTO, at US request, to form a single venue to manage trade disputes between nations? Was that the UN being all about "standing up and swearing at the US"? How about when the UN took on North Korea in the 1950s? Sure, there were plenty of Americans there, but despite what you saw on MASH there were a lot of Canadian, Australians, French, and other troops there too. Was that the UN being all about "standing up and swearing at the US"?

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When the US decided to go to war in Afghanistan a year or so ago, was the UN all about "standing up and swearing at the US"? We went to war with you in Afghanistan, and stayed there (there are over a thousand Canadian troops in Afghanistan right now) despite the fact that some of your National Air Guard people dropped a bomb on a bunch of the Patricia's doing night exercises and are going to get off with a slap on the wrist. Was that about us "standing up and swearing at the US"? There was barely a peep in Canada about going to war in Afghanistan. It was very clear to us why you wanted to do it and why it had to be done; bringing the people who did 9/11 to justice is worth almost any price. However, this war is not about 9/11, no matter what your media is saying. This is naked power politics taken to the extreme of war, and that's all. And that's not OK.

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The first victim of Imperial Rome was Republican Rome. The second victim of Imperial Athens was Athens. Read the papers at [link|http://www.newamericancentury.org|http://www.newamericancentury.org], take a look at the signatories of the statement of intent, look up the names of the Bush cabinet, and do some thinking. Maybe you'll understand why most of the world thingks US motives in this war are a little suspicious; because what's true for Iraq today could be true for many other countries tomorrow.

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Because your little lampoon above certainly displayed no thought whatsoever; just a facile grasp of cheap potshots.

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--\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n* Jack Troughton                            jake at consultron.ca *\r\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca]                   [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\r\n* Kingston Ontario Canada               [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
New Re: Reasoned rebuttal.

So, are you saying that Blix is venal at best, and mendacious at worst? Or what? Like I said, nice lampoon...



Yes. Obviously anyone would feel the same reluctance to instigate a war, but the UN was incapable of appointing someone who wouldn't cave in.

And now here you are talking about the big bad UN doing exactly what you were just doing above wrt Blix. Nothing quite like a little drive-by character assassination to make yourself feel better, eh?



Big bad UN? Please...it's pitiful. And I doubt that mere character assassination would be the end of it, for some countries with a few issues.

If you think the UN has "basically ... been all about one country after another standing up and swearing at the U.S., in the hopes that a few billion dollars of FA get sent their way", then you have a very narrow view of the world. The UN was the organisation that got 100% behind the US in Gulf War I... was that them "standing up and swearing at the US ... for a few billion dollars"?



They had absolutely no choice in the matter. Saddam invaded another country, and they had no possible way to escape the fact that action was needed.

How about when the UN set up the WTO, at US request, to form a single venue to manage trade disputes between nations? Was that the UN being all about "standing up and swearing at the US"? How about when the UN took on North Korea in the 1950s? Sure, there were plenty of Americans there, but despite what you saw on MASH there were a lot of Canadian, Australians, French, and other troops there too. Was that the UN being all about "standing up and swearing at the US"?


Sure, if it involves finances and the U.S., they're all over that. But again, the UN had no choice in Korea...there was an obvious invasion and action was inescapable. Either that or completely lose any shred of credibility.

When the US decided to go to war in Afghanistan a year or so ago, was the UN all about "standing up and swearing at the US"? We went to war with you in Afghanistan, and stayed there (there are over a thousand Canadian troops in Afghanistan right now) despite the fact that some of your National Air Guard people dropped a bomb on a bunch of the Patricia's doing night exercises and are going to get off with a slap on the wrist. Was that about us "standing up and swearing at the US"? There was barely a peep in Canada about going to war in Afghanistan. It was very clear to us why you wanted to do it and why it had to be done; bringing the people who did 9/11 to justice is worth almost any price. However, this war is not about 9/11, no matter what your media is saying. This is naked power politics taken to the extreme of war, and that's all. And that's not OK.



No one ever complained about Canada. Also, yeah, this war is not about 9/11. I'm the first to claim our media is a bunch of sensationalist empty-headed morons. This war is about Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi people. Carter got Saddam all set up, Reagan was more concerned about local issues, and Bush had to deal with the huge instability due to the collapsing Soviet regime and the end of the Cold War. Bush took the only chance he had, which Saddam provided in the way of invading Kuwait. Unfortunately we abandoned the Iraqi people for eight years while revenge killings were sweeping areas the Iraqis had celebrated American arrival. Bush Jr. finally got the courage to go back in and finish what should have been finished a decade ago. This is what the Iraqis want. They are greeting troops with outstretched arms because they believe we'll finish the job this time. I hope they're right. On an interesting note, Hollywood celebrities are furious the war started now: they say Clinton would never have done this to them near their little self-aggrandising show. From what I understand there was a microscopic window for the strike to hit where it counted...Clinton (or so Hollywood claims) would have said, no, we need to wait until after the awards ceremony.

The first victim of Imperial Rome was Republican Rome. The second victim of Imperial Athens was Athens. Read the papers at [link|http://www.newamericancentury.org|http://www.newamericancentury.org], take a look at the signatories of the statement of intent, look up the names of the Bush cabinet, and do some thinking. Maybe you'll understand why most of the world thingks US motives in this war are a little suspicious; because what's true for Iraq today could be true for many other countries tomorrow.



Certainly you're not paranoid about the U.S. invading Canada, eh?

Because your little lampoon above certainly displayed no thought whatsoever; just a facile grasp of cheap potshots.



I give as good as I get. Your current response was the first response that displayed any thought whatsoever, and I do appreciate that.
     Bingo... - (gdaustin) - (59)
         ROFLMAO! - (mmoffitt) - (15)
             we might well find legit sh*t, we havnt found it yet -NT - (boxley) - (14)
                 We stood a better chance with inspectors. - (mmoffitt) - (13)
                     Re: We stood a better chance with inspectors. - (cybermace5) - (12)
                         Nice lampoon. - (jake123) - (1)
                             Re: Nice lampoon. - (cybermace5)
                         Reasoned rebuttal. - (jake123) - (1)
                             Re: Reasoned rebuttal. - (cybermace5)
                         Re: We stood a better chance with inspectors. - (dmarker) - (7)
                             Another of Marlowe's friends from school? - (Brandioch) - (6)
                                 Re: Another of Marlowe's friends from school? - (cybermace5) - (5)
                                     Yep, another of his high school friends. - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                         Exactly, you finally are kind of getting it... - (screamer)
                                     Saddam's not dead - (jake123) - (2)
                                         which sadaam, there is several you know -NT - (boxley) - (1)
                                             One Dubya is one Dubya too many <grin> -NT - (dmarker)
         It was not immediately clear what chemicals were being - (boxley) - (3)
             Not sure what legit chemical factory would need... - (admin) - (2)
                 US has been bombing Iraq since Gulf War 1 - (jake123) - (1)
                     I'll accept that... - (admin)
         So why haven't they used any yet? -NT - (Brandioch) - (37)
             bingo...maybe not - (rcareaga) - (36)
                 I like this quote. - (Brandioch) - (35)
                     Re: I like this quote. - (cybermace5) - (34)
                         Marlowe should have briefed you better. - (Brandioch) - (33)
                             Re: Marlowe should have briefed you better. - (cybermace5) - (32)
                                 It's better to leave live agents with the enemy? - (Brandioch) - (31)
                                     And more. - (Brandioch) - (1)
                                         Re: And more. - (cybermace5)
                                     Re: It's better to leave live agents with the enemy? - (cybermace5) - (28)
                                         So, you pile excuse on excuse on excuse? - (Brandioch) - (27)
                                             Re: So, you pile excuse on excuse on excuse? - (cybermace5) - (26)
                                                 Vietnam - (Brandioch) - (24)
                                                     Big difference - (cybermace5) - (23)
                                                         Parallels... - (ChrisR) - (4)
                                                             And one other thought... - (ChrisR) - (2)
                                                                 And another... - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                                                     +10 for insight. - (Brandioch)
                                                             Re: Parallels... - (deSitter)
                                                         How many WOULD have been sufficient? - (Brandioch) - (15)
                                                             The biggest difference.... - (ChrisR) - (3)
                                                                 :) But if no one watches it on TV, does it matter? - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                     Afghanistan has been a good theatre for us. - (ChrisR) - (1)
                                                                         My problem with Afghanistan is..... - (Brandioch)
                                                             Re: How many WOULD have been sufficient? - (cybermace5) - (10)
                                                                 And you add ANOTHER layer of excuses. - (Brandioch) - (9)
                                                                     Re: And you add ANOTHER layer of excuses. - (cybermace5) - (8)
                                                                         Like I said, another layer of excuses. - (Brandioch) - (2)
                                                                             Re: Like I said, another layer of excuses. - (cybermace5) - (1)
                                                                                 And even more excuses from you. - (Brandioch)
                                                                         Re: And you add ANOTHER layer of excuses. - (jake123) - (4)
                                                                             the 4th Estate is heard (or not, as may be) - (rcareaga)
                                                                             Re: And you add ANOTHER layer of excuses. - (cybermace5) - (2)
                                                                                 Hey, that's my prediction - (jake123)
                                                                                 That is because you do not understand. - (Brandioch)
                                                         absolute horse sh*t - (boxley) - (1)
                                                             boxley brings us truth in labeling! - (rcareaga)
                                                 welcome to khassim :0 -NT - (boxley)
         The only proof is prediction. - (Brandioch)

Even if you don't understand anything, you'll get to see the dots...
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