Post #8,959
9/13/01 6:54:23 PM
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Speaking as a former firefighter...
First, the attitude that just about every emergency rescue person (firefighter, paramedic, police officer, etc.) I've ever met pretty much would have required them to be climbing stairs until the Point of No Return. For if they could have saved Just One More Life with their efforts, then their efforts were well worth it.
Second, every fire department (especially one as well-run as FDNY) knows the ins and outs of every special building in their district. I have every faith that every firefighter in the city of New York knows about the special construction qualities of the WTC buildings.
They might not have been thinking about that foremost at the time, but it had to have been a part of their training. When I was in fire school as well as during the couple of years I spent on the squad, we did weekly training exercises. I'm completely confident that FDNY did at least as much.
-YendorMike
"The problems of the world cannot possibly be solved by the skeptics or the cynics whose horizons are limited by the obvious realities. We need people who dream of things that never were." - John F. Kennedy
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Post #8,960
9/13/01 7:15:53 PM
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Maybe, maybe not
I'm sure they knew about the special sheathed construction of the towers. They probably also knew that the towers had been build to withstand the impact of a jet plane - and, at the time, it would not have been clear what size or type the planes that rammed the towers were. Add to that the fact that the towerrs were still standing after the impacts - aha! the towers were living up to specifications.
What nobody seems to have known or anticipated was that the fire would be so hot that the steel would melt. Again, nobody anticipated the collapses. It takes some expert from England to analyze the "obvious" and "inevitable" danger of collapse for us?
As much as they might have had refresher courses and had high-rise fighting training and known the peculiarities of all the major structures in the area, I don't think they or, apparently, any one except this professor in England had any clue it might collapse.
Isn't one aspect of firefighter training an emphesis to take no unnecessary risks? If you're dead, you can't help anyone. Of course firefighters take risks every time they answer an alarm. They take risks just driving down the street trying to get there, and horrendous risks in fighting the fires. But they're calculated risks, not suicidal risks. Or so I've been told.
I still believe they had no idea the towers would or could collapse. I've seen the videos of firefighters fighting ordinary fires in ordinary houses - when the thing is about to collapse, they do pull back, don't they?
That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as freedom], on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion; yet arms ... should be the last resource. - George Washington
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Post #8,969
9/13/01 7:52:31 PM
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Welp, gotta eat crow
I've been reading articles about how they called in a priest to give them the last rites before they went in. That's not the actions of someone engaging in a calculated risk.
That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as freedom], on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion; yet arms ... should be the last resource. - George Washington
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Post #8,990
9/13/01 10:01:05 PM
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Not a calculated risk?
An important aspect of calculated risk is that you do what you can to cover all bases.
I'm not really up on the finer points of Catholic theology. If you get the last rites, and then haven't the good grace to die promptly, is there some kind of karmic penalty?
[link|http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/marlowe/index.html|http://www.angelfir...e/index.html]
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Post #9,000
9/13/01 10:24:25 PM
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Different sort of risk
If I understand it correctly, Catholic priests don't normally give last rites to people who don't expect to die. These people, apparently, thought they were going to die. That's not a firefighter's "calculated risk" type of thing. It's a "I'm going into harm's way and I don't think I'll survive" type of thing.
That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment to use arms in defense of so valuable a blessing [as freedom], on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion; yet arms ... should be the last resource. - George Washington
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Post #9,087
9/14/01 12:05:31 PM
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No karmic penalty
Last Rites (which we are now supposed to call "Annointing of the Sick") is not reserved for the dying, and not one of the one-shot sacraments.
Asking for the sacrament doesn't imply that you think you are checking out. But it does imply you have death on your mind.
The (grossly oversimplified by someone who hasn't given it all that much thought) idea is to connect your current or upcoming crisis to that of Christ. It is encouraged, and there is no shame or penalty for using it when the situation turns out not be lethal. Some people use it for illnesses that are just very unpleasant and not terminal.
Unless there is a custom among firefighters that I'm not aware of (not at all unlikely) it isn't something they would do for a routine fire. On the other hand, it doesn't imply a suicide mission.
---- sig suspended until I get my sense of humor back
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Post #9,093
9/14/01 12:16:38 PM
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karmic penalty?
I...um...didn't think Karma was a part of Catholic Theology, either...
Jay O'Connor
"Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
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Post #9,208
9/14/01 8:42:18 PM
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Sure it is.. just different wording
As ye sow, so shall ye reap
Sometimes Christians remind me of the earlier Russians... Da tovarishi - Mother Russia invented the airplane.. and also theology - also thought
:-\ufffd
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Post #9,269
9/15/01 8:21:51 AM
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Embrace & extend?
-- Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?
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Post #9,094
9/14/01 12:18:10 PM
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karmic penalty?
I...um...didn't think Karma was a part of Catholic Theology, either...
Jay O'Connor
"Going places unmapped to do things unplanned to people unsuspecting"
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