Post #88,599
3/15/03 9:46:31 PM
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Mad at Red Hat and SuSe...
I was in the store today and looked at the boxes for RH 8.0 and SuSe 8.1.
The new $39.99 distributions NO LONGER INCLUDE SERVER COMPONENTS. No DHCP server, no SAMBA server, no NFS server, no Apache, etc.
They are being re-branded as 'personal' distibutions, so they are becoming Desktop Linux, not by adding things, but by taking things away, so installations become simpler, and the user has to answer fewer questions to install it.
This ticks me off, because I've always expected from RH and SuSe and the major distributions, that the "basics" of running a small server system would always be there.
I don't want to (and can't really afford to) pay $149.99 every .1 release for the "professional" edition.
I was really ready to buy RH 8.0 today, but alas, my accountant (wife) will not approve a purchase over $50 for software right now. Even SuSe professional was $89.95 at Best Buy.
The commercialization of Linux is ruining it!
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Post #88,601
3/15/03 9:51:33 PM
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So download debian instead.
Just 'cause it's Linux doesn't mean the sheep shan't be shorn. The nice thing is that you can always avoid the shearing for yourself with a little education about how it all works.
--\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------\r\n* Jack Troughton jake at consultron.ca *\r\n* [link|http://consultron.ca|http://consultron.ca] [link|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca|irc://irc.ecomstation.ca] *\r\n* Kingston Ontario Canada [link|news://news.consultron.ca|news://news.consultron.ca] *\r\n-------------------------------------------------------------------
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Post #88,613
3/15/03 10:35:50 PM
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really sux. I have a cable modem and no FSCKING CDR!!!!
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]</br>
To a lot of people in California hunting anything but the wild tofualope was equivelent to sacarificing babies to satan. S.M. Sterling
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Post #88,617
3/15/03 10:49:14 PM
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If you have cable but no CDR use 2 floppies
Do a net install. [link|http://www.debian.org/distrib/floppyinst|http://www.debian.org/distrib/floppyinst]
Many fears are born of stupidity and ignorance -
Which you should be feeding with rumour and generalisation.
BOfH, 2002 "Episode" 10
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Post #88,636
3/15/03 11:32:14 PM
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yabbut only one boxen unwilling to de-install osx
will work for cash and other incentives [link|http://home.tampabay.rr.com/boxley/resume/Resume.html|skill set]
questions, help? [link|mailto:pappas@catholic.org|email pappas at catholic.org]</br>
To a lot of people in California hunting anything but the wild tofualope was equivelent to sacarificing babies to satan. S.M. Sterling
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Post #88,627
3/15/03 11:22:42 PM
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Okay, Glen send me the obligatory...
E-Mail...
With:
Real Name
Real Address
City St Zip
Anything else you want...
You will get:
a number of Current Knoppix CDs
1 CD with the OLD IWE archive, Windows Mozilla, Gimp and CYGWIN on it
8 CDs of Debian Woody v3.0r1
I also have the following handy just ask:
RedHat v8.0
Mandrake v9.0
FreeBSD v4.7
NetBSD v1.6
SuSE you are out of luck... I ain't got FULL install of it... You'll have to buy it.
BTW, You can Download the pieces you need and compile or install them... gives you good experience!!!
b4k4^2
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberspace_strategy.pdf|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #88,649
3/16/03 12:29:18 AM
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Let me look at the Debian woody stuff online first...
I do have a CD burner, so I might be able to get the images downloaded and burned.
Also, I have RH 7.3 here at home, and I was trying to make plans tonight to reinstall and fix the tulip driver problem the load had when I bitched back in Nov/Dec. It appears I'll have to recompile the tulip driver and pci-scan and compile them back into the kernel.
Also, I've got to upgrade the memory on that machine. I got 512meg at Christmas and I've been so danged busy at work, I haven't even had time to install it.
I just want a good, stable Linux for use as a firewall for my cable modem, a secure (ie. non-hackable) way to serve up a few personal web pages, and a place to learn things like PostGreSQL, PHP, Apache, and Python.
A friend and I have some business ideas we want to build prototypes for, and I really want to avoid using the same technology as at work ( DB2 and Java ).
We just need a place to do our "skunkworks", until we have something real.
Glen
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Post #88,667
3/16/03 9:43:30 AM
3/16/03 9:45:30 AM
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4 of 8 Debian Images downloaded
Does it matter I get the images from different FTP sites? I started with 1/2 at Rutgers last night, but it wouldn't let me do more than 2. So, I started up 3/4 from Colorado University and I downloaded 1/2/3/4 last night. This morning, I started 5/6 from Colorado, and 5 is almost done.
Then I'll get 7/8, after church.
So, I think I'll have Debian downloaded and burned this PM.
Question, how long does a Debian install take? RedHat was just an hour or two, and mostly it was set things up at the beginning and then switch the CD when it asks.
I'm expecting Debian to be some kind of extended script that may take hours? How many packages "auto-install"? I really don't want to manually feed 8,000 RPMs into the system, if I can help it.
I guess if I have to build my own custom kernel, at least it will be smaller and boot up faster, because I can leave out device driver support for devices I don't have (like SCSI).
Edited by gdaustin
March 16, 2003, 09:45:30 AM EST
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Post #88,669
3/16/03 10:10:39 AM
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Use the nonUS CD#1 to boot from and use the bf24 option...
But, you should also get a KNOPPIX ISO... [link|ftp://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/knoppix/\n|THIS PLACE] is a good place to get it from...
That will help you determine the Drivers(modules) you need to specify... or get loaded to make a working machine.
Q's on the Debian install are gladly answered. KNOPPIX should be straight forward...
You may find the Tulip modules are okay in the bf24 kernel...
After the first boot you'll be asked about the machine and what it should do. Then there are other things you need to take care of... it's just plain interesting... the first REAL install of Debian I did... I browsed the package list for ~2 days before finally deciding to proceed. But that is me.. :)
TTFN!!
b4k4^2
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberspace_strategy.pdf|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #88,760
3/17/03 12:41:48 AM
3/17/03 12:43:26 AM
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Debian / Knoppix ? Either / Or?
Do I chose to install either Knoppix or Debian?
I guess I'm kinda lost here. I've downloaded the 8 images, have 7 burned and will return to Staples tomorrow to get another stack of CD-R's.
My Debian Disk 1 does boot the Linux box, but I quit the install early on because I still need to harvest my ipchains firewall config from the old box and probably a few other things, too.
I'm downloading Knoppix tonight from University of Illinois.
Based on the reading, it sounded like Knoppix is an "alternative OS" to Linux. So it's an either Debian or Knoppix decision?
Let me know.
Thanks,
Glen Austin
Edited by gdaustin
March 17, 2003, 12:42:33 AM EST
Edited by gdaustin
March 17, 2003, 12:43:26 AM EST
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Post #88,784
3/17/03 7:56:44 AM
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KNOPPIX... is
a Debian Based Distro of Linux... except you run it from the CDROM...
You can install it to the HD as well...
Use KNOPPIX to detect your hardware...
Use Debian, and then use [link|/forums/render/content/show?contentid=74573|This IPTABLES SCRIPT]... it works very well... Very well indeed.
b4k4^2
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberspace_strategy.pdf|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #89,404
3/19/03 10:22:17 AM
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Loaded Knoppix on my Linux box last night....
From the CDROM.
I wrote down all the "auto-identified" devices on the back of an envelope. I was surprised how few there really were.
I was expecting layer upon layer of drivers (kind of like Windows), but it identified just enough to put on the back of an envelope.
The list appears to be almost identical to the one I originally used to install RedHat, but I can't remember how long ago that was. Was that RH 5.1? or 6.0?
At some point RH autodetected everything, and Linux installation got a lot easier.
One surprise was that Knoppix did not detect my parallel port Zip drive. But, to be fair, I dont' thing RedHat did, either. To get it to work, I usually have to insmod on a ppa module.
I guess with my "envelope" list, I'll proceed with installing Debian tonight.
Glen Austin
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Post #89,446
3/19/03 12:43:10 PM
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For your system information, use...
The system-info script described at the [link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/LinuxSystemInfoScript|LinuxSystemInfoScript] TWIT page. \r\n\r\n Run, save, and/or print the results. --\r\n
Karsten M. Self [link|mailto:kmself@ix.netcom.com|kmself@ix.netcom.com]\r\n
[link|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/|http://kmself.home.netcom.com/]\r\n
What part of "gestalt" don't you understand?\r\n
[link|http://twiki.iwethey.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/|TWikIWETHEY] -- an experiment in collective intelligence. Stupidity. Whatever.\r\n
\r\n
Keep software free. Oppose the CBDTPA. Kill S.2048 dead.\r\n[link|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html|http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html]\r\n
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Post #88,634
3/15/03 11:30:20 PM
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Are you sure those things . .
. . aren't still on the CD-ROMs as RPMs? Sure, you'd have to install them separately after the basic install, but that's not a real big hassle.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #88,645
3/16/03 12:01:33 AM
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OK, I went to their sites and looked.
SuSE definitely includes only the client side of the server applications. Red Hat doesn't have feature lists detailed enough for me to tell what might be included in their personal addition.
Well, I'm certainly not shocked. I've been saying for a long time the age of free ISOs and free everything has to end. Unfortunately, a mainstream business has to make a decent amount of money to pay for puting together a polished product and marketing it.
So, there's Debian and FreeBSD, or download RPMs and tarballs.
[link|http://www.aaxnet.com|AAx]
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Post #88,651
3/16/03 12:34:42 AM
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Re: OK, I went to their sites and looked.
Red Hat annouced a while ago that they were also taking out "server features" from the personal systems.
I don't have the specifics of what release, though.
Personally, I've worked with Linux since 6.2, and I've always assumed that there would be a "core" of RPMs that would include server components like DHCP, Apache, etc. and that these would always be in the base distribution.
But again, the same thing happened with OS/2 and Windows NT. As the software moved from release 2 to release 3 and release 3 to release 4, the details of how the software actually worked became less and less exposed to user. Messages that used to be on-screen get neatly hidden away into logs (if at all), where only the sysadmin will know where to find them.
I guess it's just true with all software.
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Post #89,132
3/18/03 2:36:54 PM
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Correct me if I am wrong
but what is to stop you from downloading those things and installing them yourself?
[link|http://www.apache.org/|http://www.apache.org/]
[link|http://www.samba.org/|http://www.samba.org/]
Do they stop you from doing that as well? Are those Red Hat 8.0 ISOs also missing the server components from the download off of the Internet?
Makes me mad enough to go to Debian as well.
"Bill gates cannot guarantee Windows, so how are you going to guarantee my safety?"
-John Crichton to the Emperor of the Scarrans on [link|http://www.farscape.com|FarScape]
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