Post #88,447
3/14/03 8:11:53 PM
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BLAH...BLAH...BLAH...
I'm rubber you're glue... everything bounces off my flabby stomache and sticks to ewe...
What I meant by that... was IN YOUR WORLD... You know everything... your rules apply... you believe that you CAN'T go against what *IS* mandated... you let these thing creep up on you and fail...
CIP, You don't believe that you need the EXPERTISE on-site for anything you use... cuase you BUY and HAVE Vendor SUPPORT.... you say FIX-IT... they do when it pleases them... or when they get around to it... meanwhile you are hanging... but little did you know that a good dba and sysadmin could figger out a workaround for you while you waited... and waited...
Where as *I* believe that having Great Talent around you as well as being versed to be able to recognize these... well they wouldna even have to call support except for the request for the patch to the bug they found.
This is where we are fundamentally different.
b4k4^2
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberspace_strategy.pdf|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #88,448
3/14/03 8:23:44 PM
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Ahh, an actual debate
You see it as an isolated box.
It works or it doesn't. If it
doesn't, you fix it for find
the correct person to do it.
I see it as an integral piece of
many systems. Impacting many
people. Requiring the good
will of all of them, or the
political power to shove it
down their throats which usually
doesn't seem to work, at least not
for the long haul.
As I said, assuming NO technical
problems, there are still many
roadblocks. I'm trying to
understand the cost / benefit
here, and I don't see it.
And I don't believe for a second
that there will be no major
technical problems with 3rd party
software that we CAN'T fix.
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Post #88,452
3/14/03 8:44:27 PM
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Yes but you still missed it...
SAPDB is free for the taking... you can use with OR with out support. But you can STILL use the Web-Based support for FREE...
Let's see, Oracle Multiple Processor Licensing for the Enterprise typically consisting of three 16-way machines... hmmm... $120K USD... w/o support...
SAPDB for those same 3 machines/48 processors.... 0$
Let's see... Premium support/software maintenance $45K USD - $100K USD depending on number of allowable contacts.
SAPDB Support for those same Core Competency Centers of Knowledge (what SAPDB call those contacts) $64K USD ($60K EUR)
Hmm okay... if you don't see it... you never will.
Technical problems are what I was born for... them the best ones...
b4k4^2
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberspace_strategy.pdf|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #88,457
3/14/03 9:21:44 PM
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No, I see it
I see you've saved the company (ahh, $100,000)
per year. For 3 x 16 CPUs.
Hmm. 16 CPU machine. Hmm. $300,000 per
machine? $900,000 for machine cost.
I assume these machines are doing something,
making money? I assume hmmmm 6 programmers
for a complex project to require such major
hardware. Programmers hmmmm. $100K per year
fully loaded cost.
Ongoing support costs for that major hardware
hmmm 20%? $180,000 per year.
An initial purchase of a million dollars
worth of hardware and a several month
development effort of multiple programmers,
(note, this is ALL virgin system, no
tie in with any legacy or 3rd party),
better actually have a profit starting on the
2nd year. So this means about million
dollars a year profit starting year
2 to justify the ramp up costs.
And you would risk that million
dollars to save $100,000 per year?
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Post #88,465
3/14/03 10:28:09 PM
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Economy of SCALE...
Yes... Economy of SCALE...
There really is no risk... SAPDB is as well supported as Oracle... SAP has the man power and the skill to fix any problem you have...
So that $100K is a 10% savings... Hell I have seen Strategies MUCH MUCH more LOOPY to save a MERE 0.1% (that zero point one percent)... With MUCH MUCH more risk involved... Look at the Energy sector. Or how about the Commodity Market... each of those markets have Margins typically much less than 1%.
THIS is were we are talking... you always want to cover your A$$... never innovate... re-hash until it's mash... "IT works" dunnit? Were you could have diverted that $100K into additional people or hardware or resources... or even give it back to the company to use in expansion...
I REALLY see your end, do you REALLY see mine?
b4k4^2
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberspace_strategy.pdf|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #88,472
3/14/03 10:58:26 PM
3/14/03 11:17:06 PM
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This says it all
There really is no risk.
No point in discussing against religious fervor.
Edited by broomberg
March 14, 2003, 11:17:06 PM EST
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Post #88,512
3/15/03 9:03:08 AM
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If that is the only thing you read...
...You are sorely mistaken sir...
It is NOT about fervor...
It is really taking a look at it... The risk *I* talk about is not the same *POLITICAL* risk you describe.
Once you understand that... then we *CAN* continue.
b4k4^2
| [link|mailto:curley95@attbi.com|greg] - Grand-Master Artist in IT | | [link|http://www.iwethey.org/ed_curry/|REMEMBER ED CURRY!] [link|http://pascal.rockford.com:8888/SSK@kQMsmc74S0Tw3KHQiRQmDem0gAIPAgM/edcurry/1//|ED'S GHOST SPEAKS!] | | [link|http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,3959,857673,00.asp|Writing on wall, Microsoft to develop apps for Linux by 2004] | Heimatland Geheime Staatspolizei reminds:
These [link|http://www.whitehouse.gov/pcipb/cyberspace_strategy.pdf|Civilian General Orders], please memorize them.
"Questions" will be asked at safety checkpoints. |
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Post #88,489
3/15/03 12:30:13 AM
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Where are you getting $120K for 3 16way machines?
That's a gross underestimation of the price. Maybe the support costs would be that much, but the initial license purchase for 3 16 way machines ( 48 processors, even at $20K a processor (1/2 of list and 1/3 of clustered cost) should be something short of 1 million dollars ( $960,000 ).
$120K would have them selling the initial licenses at less than 10% of the list cost. Would they really do that?
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Post #88,540
3/15/03 12:03:10 PM
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He might be getting it
He's used to "academic" pricing. Kind of skews your world view.
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Post #88,473
3/14/03 11:09:11 PM
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Re: BLAH...BLAH...BLAH...
Remember - this is Barry. This isn't some chump.
-drl
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